Dear Nina and Sister Dipa,



The problem is that in the Pāli the word asatthikā could derive from Skt. asārthika ("without a caravan") or from Skt. aśastrikā  (without a weapon), because in the change from Old Indic to Middle Indic the conjunct consonants -rth- (asārthika) and -str- (aśastrikā  ) both simplified to -tth- (in Pāli) and the -a- is short before the conjunct -tth- (so the long -ā- in asārthika would be lost, as a vowel is automatically long before two consonants in Pāli). Therefore as Nina says, it's the context which must determine the meaning of the word. I have access to Waldschmidt and he gives several Chinese versions which tend to corroborate his translation (page 127 of his Bruchstücke des Bhikṣunī-Prātimokṣa der Savrāstivādins), - one version says that a bhikkhunī should not wander around alone without someone on whom she should rely, and another specifically mentions that a nun should only go "with merchants to accompany her."

I've checked Law's translation which says that a bhikkhuni "should walk about with weapons within her own country in times of fear of robbers, dacoits, and other wicked persons" but he gives no justification for it (and this is not quite what the Pāli says: "nuns were
wandering asatthikā in the interior of the kingdom in areas which were considered dangerous and terrifying; scoundrels hurt them..." . Presumably the sentence could mean either  nuns shouldn't wander without weapons in dangerous places and/or a nun shouldn't wander without companions in such places, both of which things we might say to our own children if they were travelling to an unsafe location (stay with your friends, and keep a pepper spray in your purse); so in the end I'm not sure if both meanings were meant,  although the  "travel in a caravan" definition seems the most logical if we have to pick one.

Metta,

Bryan




________________________________
From: Nina van Gorkom <vangorko@...>
To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 5:36:34 AM
Subject: Re: [Pali] asatthikaa caravan or armed?


 
Dear Sister Dipa,
Op 29-nov-2011, om 16:09 heeft Sister Dipa het volgende geschreven:

> In I.B.Horner's Book of Discipline Vol. 3 page 317 she has
> translated asatthikaa as weapon, with a footnote saying that
> "translators differ as to whether this means "without a weapon" or
> not (having joined) a caravan."

------
N: sattha: weapon or sattha (sa+attha) caravan, these are different
stems.We have to find out from the context. It seems strange that a
nun would go on almstour with a weapon. I do not think weapons were
ever allowed. Rather, she should not go alone, but in a caravan.
In vol. 4, p. 201, a monk wanted to enter on the rains in a caravan
and this was allowed.

Nina.

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