Re: samādhi - how do we tell whether it refers to sammā samādhi o

Dear Nina,
Thanks for the thoughtful and detailed article. It does add more for
me to think about, and I'll keep those issues in mind as I encounter
"Samaadhi" in different contexts in the Paali suttas.

On a related topic, last weekend I was reading passages where Ven.
Sariputta defined avijja in 4 aspects (what it is, what is the cause of
it, what is the cessation it, and what is the path that leads to the
cessation). He cited the asavas as the cause of avijja. So I looked up
asavas to see what the cause of asavas were, and guess what? The cause
of asavas are avijja. So the Buddha gave us a circular answer. And the
main Asava is the taint of ignorance, just for some more bonus recursion
and circularity. The only thing in that sutta specified as the way
leading to the ending of the Asavas and Aviija is the noble eightfold
path. I thought about that for quite some time, and the conclusion that
I came to is that the Buddha, as brilliant and wise as he was, would
have used language to explain in more detail if it were possible to do
so. The fact that he didn't leads me to conclude all we can do is make
sure our samaadhi is as strong as possible and directly penetrate avijja
and destruction of the asavas.

-Frank

On 2/26/2011 1:13 AM, Nina van Gorkom wrote:
>
> Dear Frank,
> Op 23-feb-2011, om 1:19 heeft frank het volgende geschreven:
>
> > I'm interested in the meaning of Samādhi in the last line of the
> > quoted
> > paragraph from the Upanisa sutta [SN 12.23]...
> The knowledge and vision of things as they really are, monks, also has
> a supporting condition, I say, it does not lack a supporting condition.
> And what is the supporting condition for the knowledge and vision of
> things as they really are? 'Concentration' should be the reply.
>
> "Concentration, monks, also has a supporting condition, I say, it does
> not lack a supporting condition. And what is the supporting condition
> for concentration? 'Happiness' should be the reply.
> ---------------------------------------------------
>
> Frank: From the point of view of what makes sense to me in how I
> interpret the
> Buddha's instruction in this sutta of the conditioned steps that lead to
> full liberation, I would think samādhi would probably refer to samādhi
> the group (sammā samādhi + sammā sati + sammā vāyāmo) rather
> than just
> the 4 jhānas (sammā samādhi), as the former is more integrated and
> comprehensive. But that's just a guess. When we read suttas in the
> tipitaka, how do we know which Samādhi is being referred to?
> --------
> N:The commentaries help and you can also make a cross reference of
> texts so that you see that in different contexts different aspects
> and levels of samaadhi that have been referred to.
> There are many kinds and levels of samaadhi or ekaggata cetasika.
> This cetasika arises with each citta and hence it can be kusala,
> akusala, vipaaka or kiriya. It is conditioned by the citta it
> accompanies. Its function is to focus on one object, the object citta
> experiences.
> It is one of the jhaanafactors which are developed in samatha in
> order to suppress the hindrances and attain jhaana.
> Samma-samadhi is one of the factors of the eightfold Path. When panna
> knows, for example, the visible object which presents itself as only
> a rupa appearing through the eyes or the seeing which presents itself
> as only a nama which experiences visible object, there is also right
> concentration at that moment: samma samadhi focuses on the object in
> the right way. When samma-samadhi accompanies lokuttara citta, samma-
> samadhi is also lokuttara and it focuses on nibbana. Then samma-
> samadhi is a factor of the supramundane eightfold Path (lokuttara
> magga).
>
> Some people have accumulated skill and inclinations to develop jhaana
> and some do not. See A II, 157, Yuganaddhasutta, for four ways of
> development.
> Also those who do not develop jhaana and attain enlightenment with
> 'dry insight' have sammaasamaadhi accompanying lokuttara citta that
> has the same strength of concentration as that arising with the first
> jhaana. There is absorption in nibbaana.
> The Upanisa sutta ends with the attainment of arahatship. This can
> only be attained by developing insight stage by stage, no matter one
> also develops jhaana or not. This sutta refers to the development of
> jhaana and vipassanaa.
> I consulted the commentary in Thai, this is easier for me. But I
> could not read all. The commentary mentions different stages of
> insight and it calls these stages weak insight. Insight has to be
> accumulated until it is strong. <Weak insight is the condition for
> strong insight>.
> As to samaadhi: this is samaadhi that has jhaana as foundation. This
> samaadhi is a condition for weak insight.The disciple has to listen
> to the Dhamma so that he sees the dukkha of va.t.ta, the cycle. Birth
> is the condition for the dukkha of the cycle. He is harmed by the
> cycle. The dukkha of the cycle is the condition of saddhaa
> (confidence) in a following life. He becomes a monk and he develops
> kammathaanas to begin with the earth kasina. Then arises pitti which
> is weak. Then arises gladness and this is a condition for strong
> pitti. This conditions calm. Calm conditions samaadhi that has jhaana
> as foundation. Sukha arises with samaadhi that is appanasamaadhi
> (accompanying jhaana) . Samaadhi that has jhaana as foundation is a
> condition for weak vipassanaa. Vipassanaa that is weak is a condition
> for strong insight and this again for magga (N: lokuttara magga).
> Magga is the condiiton for phalavimutti and this again for reviewing
> insight, pacchavekkha ~naa.na (arising after the lokuttara cittas and
> reviewing the previous attainment, nibbaana, defilements that have
> been eradicated and as demands the case, not yet eradicated).
>
> Thus, as regards samaadhi, we have to take into account the context,
> in this or that sutta.
> --------
> Nina.
>
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>
>



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