From: frank
Message: 14269
Date: 2010-01-06
On 1/5/2010 10:42 AM, Rosa Grau gmail wrote:
>
> Frank,
>
> I searched for jāyatha, maybe that explains the discrepancies. I can
> do another search if necessary. What is DPR, by the way?
>
> Rosa
>
> _____
>
> From: Pali@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>] On
> Behalf Of frank
> Sent: dimarts, 5 / gener / 2010 17:27
> To: Pali@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: how many suttas end with "here is a tree, empty hut, do
> jhana..." Re: Antw.: [Pali] Re: Was the Buddha Obliged to Observe
> Vinaya Rules?, no 5.
>
> Thanks Rosa! I had the impression the phrase was even more frequent than
> that, but it's probably because there are certain key suttas such as [M
> 152] that I tend to re-read frequently, resulting in that impression.
> Playing around this morning I just realized DPR can do a much wider
> search than only the current window/sutta. Doing the widest search for
> "empty hut" in DPR results in:
> Search Results for *su~n~naagaaraani: * DN:
> <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfDN')> 0, MN:
> <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfMN')> 4, SN:
> <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfSN')> 7, AN:
> <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfAN')> 4, KN:
> <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfKN')> 0, Vin:
> <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfVin')> 0, Abhi:
> <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfAbhi')> 0
>
> The lack of results in Samyutta presumably is due to the "..." sutta
> repetitions that are ellipsed out. I manually looked through the ending
> page of each of the 34 DN suttas (maurice walshe version) yesterday,
> and confirmed the lack of the phrase in DN. Your search results below
> found 3 occurences in MN, DPR reported 4, I'm going to look into that
> discrepancy right now and get back to you guys later today or tomorrow...
>
> -Frank
>
> On 1/5/2010 12:25 AM, Rosa Grau gmail wrote:
> >
> > Your search results:
> >
> > 1 Etāni bhikkhave, rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, māpamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino AN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 2 Etāni bhikkhave, rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni jhāyatha bhikkhave,
> > mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino AN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 3 Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha bhikkhave,
> > mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino MN I_utf8.txt
> >
> > 4 Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave,
> > mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 5 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 6 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 7 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 8 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 9 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 10 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 11 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 12 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 13 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 14 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 15 Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 16 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 17 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 18 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 19 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 20 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 21 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 22 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 23 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 24 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 25 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 26 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 27 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 28 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 29 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 30 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 31 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 32 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 33 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 34 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 35 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 36 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 37 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 38 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 39 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 40 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 41 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 42 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 43 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 44 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 45 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 46 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 47 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 48 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 49 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 50 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 51 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 52 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 53 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 54 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 55 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 56 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 57 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 58 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 59 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 60 Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave
> > mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 61 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave
> > mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 62 ā. Etāni bhikkhu rukkhamūlāni. Etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha bhikkhu,
> > mā pamādattha. Mā pacchā vippaṭisārino a AN III_utf8.txt
> >
> > 63 . Etāni bhikkhu, rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha bhikkhu,
> > mā pamādattha. Mā pacchā vippaṭisārino a AN III_utf8.txt
> >
> > 64 ayā. Etāni cunda rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha cunda mā
> > pamādattha. Mā pacchā vippaṭisārino ahuv MN I_utf8.txt
> >
> > 65 āraṃ sumāpitaṃ, So tattha patisallino eko rahasi jhāyatha. 2615. Sa
> > rājā paridevesi putatasokena aṭṭito, J IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 66 khaluṅkajjhāyitaṃ hoti. 1. Saddho machasaṃ. 2. Jhāyatha sīmu. 3.
> > Bandho syā, [BJT Page 610] [\x 610/] AN V_utf8.txt
> >
> > 67 hamāne sampavedhamāne passatha dakkhatha oloketha jhāyatha
> > upaparikkhathāti 'mamāyite passatha phandamāne. ' Nidd I_utf8.txt
> >
> > 68 ā. Etāni ānanda, rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha ānanda,
> > mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino ah MN II_utf8.txt
> >
> > Rosa
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From: Pali@... <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com> com
> <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>
> > [mailto:Pali@... <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com> com
> <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>] On
> > Behalf Of frank
> > Sent: dilluns, 4 / gener / 2010 17:40
> > To: Pali@... <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com> com
> <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: how many suttas end with "here is a tree, empty hut, do
> > jhana..." Re: Antw.: [Pali] Re: Was the Buddha Obliged to Observe
> > Vinaya Rules?, no 5.
> >
> > on compulsory meditation:
> > I was just reading [S 43] yesterday, the samyutta on asankhata (the
> > unconditoned, i.e. nibbana). This would be CDOB p. 1372. On the DPI,
> > Samyutta book 4, vaggo 9. I could be misreading the "..." ellipses that
> > reduce repetition, but it looks to me as if every single sutta in that
> > samyutta ends with the famous sequence of "here is a foot of a tree, an
> > empty hut, do jhana monks...":
> >
> > (cut and paste stock phrase from DPI)
> > yam., <javascript:postout('ya.m,',849)> bhikkhave,
> > <javascript:postout('bhikkhave,',850)> sattha-ra-
> > <javascript:postout('satthaaraa',851)> karan.i-yam.
> > <javascript:postout('kara.niiya.m',852)> sa-vaka-nam.
> > <javascript:postout('saavakaana.m',853)> hitesina-
> > <javascript:postout('hitesinaa',854)> anukampakena
> > <javascript:postout('anukampakena',855)> anukampam.
> > <javascript:postout('anukampa.m',856)> upa-da-ya,
> > <javascript:postout('upaadaaya,',857)> katam.
> > <javascript:postout('kata.m',858)> vo <javascript:postout('vo',859)>
> > tam. <javascript:postout('ta.m',860)> maya-.
> > <javascript:postout('mayaa.',861)> eta-ni,
> > <javascript:postout('etaani,',862)> bhikkhave,
> > <javascript:postout('bhikkhave,',863)> rukkhamu-la-ni,
> > <javascript:postout('rukkhamuulaani,',864)> eta-ni
> > <javascript:postout('etaani',865)> suñña-ga-ra-ni.
> > <javascript:postout('su~n~naagaaraani.',866)> jha-yatha,
> > <javascript:postout('jhaayatha,',867)> bhikkhave,
> > <javascript:postout('bhikkhave,',868)> ma-
> > <javascript:postout('maa',869)> pama-dattha;
> > <javascript:postout('pamaadattha;',870)> ma-
> > <javascript:postout('maa',871)> paccha-
> > <javascript:postout('pacchaa',872)> T <javascript:void(0)>
> > vippat.isa-rino <javascript:postout('vippa.tisaarino',874)> ahuvattha.
> > <javascript:postout('ahuvattha.',875)> ayam.
> > <javascript:postout('aya.m',876)> vo <javascript:postout('vo',877)>
> > amha-kam. <javascript:postout('amhaaka.m',878)> anusa-sani-"ti.
> > <javascript:postout('anusaasanii``ti.',879)> pat.hamam..
> > <javascript:postout('pa.thama.m.',880)>
> >
> > This whole section [S 43] deals with how unconditioned is arrived at via
> > mindfulness of body, samatha, vipassana, and the 37 aids to
> > enlightenment. After enumerating each set, it ends with the "... do
> > jhana monks... " phrase.
> > I wonder how many suttas in all the nikayas end with that paragraph? If
> > we remove suttas addressed to laity, etc, and only look at suttas
> > dealing with development of wisdom, concentration, mindfulness, I bet a
> > really high % of suttas end with "do jhanas, monks..." any tech savvy
> > people on this list ever do a search for " rukkhamu-la-ni,
> > <javascript:postout('rukkhamuulaani,',864)> eta-ni
> > <javascript:postout('etaani',865)> suñña-ga-ra-ni.
> > <javascript:postout('su~n~naagaaraani.',866)> jha-yatha,
> > <javascript:postout('jhaayatha,',867)> " on the pali nikayas and tally
> > it up? We could get an answer to that question pretty quick.
> >
> > -Frank
> >
> > On 1/4/2010 3:14 AM, ashinpan wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Dear Nina,
> > >
> > > Sorry, I have just come back from a trip hence this late reply.
> > >
> > > You wrote:
> > >
> > > > We are bound to be distressed about an unpleasant experience such as
> > > > an insult or a loss of dear people, but when we begin to develop
> > > > pa~n~naa we can gradually learn from such an experience. Sometimes,
> > > > when there are conditions, we may even be glad and full of
> confidence
> > > > in the Triple Gem, as we also read in this sutta:
> > > > < Tassa ce aavuso bhikkhuno eva.m Buddha.m anussarato eva.m Dhamma.m
> > > > anussarato eva.m Sa"nga.m anussarato
> > > > But if, when a bhikkhu recollects the Enlightened One, the Teaching
> > > > and the Community,
> > > > upekhaa kusalanissitaa sa.n.thaati, so tena attamano hoti...
> > > > equanimity with the beneficial (kusala dhamma) as its support,
> > > > becomes established in him, then he is satisfied.>
> > > >
> > > > Chapter I of the Visuddhimagga deals with siila, and passages on the
> > > > fourfold purification of siila can also be partly applied by a
> > > > layfollower in his own situation. We read in the Visuddhimagga (I,
> > > > 100, 101), that restraint of the sense faculties should be
> undertaken
> > > > with mindfulness, and <When not undertaken thus, virtue of
> Patimokkha
> > > > restraint is unenduring: it does not last, like a crop not fenced in
> > > > with branches...>
> > > > Also laypeople can remember that without satipa.t.thaana one is
> bound
> > > > to give in to akusala in thought, speech and action, there will be
> > > > impatience and intolerance.
> > > > We read in Vis. I, 49-51:
> > > > <Proper resort as support: a good friend. Proper resort as guarding.
> > > > Proper resort as anchoring:<It is the four foundations of
> mindfulness
> > > > on which the mind is anchored; for this is said by the Blessed
> > > > One:'Bhikkhus, what is a bhikkhu's resort, his own native place? It
> > > > is these four "foundations of mindfulness" (S.V, 148).>
> > > > These are like an anchor both for monks and laypeople.
> > > >
> > > > The following text of the Diigha Nikaaya, Mahaaparibbaanasutta (80)
> > > > shows clearly the impact of aniccaa sa~n~naa and anattaa sa~n~naa on
> > > > siila, good morality as to thought, speech and action. This
> > > > encouraging text that refers to the Order of monks is also
> beneficial
> > > > for laypeople:
> > > >
> > > > <So long as the brethren shall exercise themselves in the
> realization
> > > > of the ideas of the impermanency of all phenomena, bodily and
> mental,
> > > > the absence [in them of any abiding principle] of any "soul", of
> > > > corruption, of the danger of wrong thoughts, of the necessity of
> > > > getting rid of them, of purity of heart, of Nibbaana- so long
> may the
> > > > brethren be expected not to decline, but to prosper.>
> > >
> > > I agree with your comments and conclusions. All the sources you have
> > > quoted are from the Sutta Pi.taka, where we can meet the Buddha as a
> > > guide, as a patient teacher. However, in Vinaya we see the Buddha as
> > > an enforcer of law who practiced the policy of "carrot or stick". All
> > > Paatimokkha precepts, for example, are in the format of "Don't do this
> > > or else".
> > >
> > > I agree that meditation like satipa.t.thaana can really help
> > > individual monks to observe Vinaya rules but there is no rule to force
> > > monks to meditate. I sometimes wonder why the Buddha has not made
> > > meditation compulsory for monks.
> > >
> > > with metta
> > >
> > > Ven. Pandita
> > >
> > >
> >
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> >
> >
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