Re: how many suttas end with "here is a tree, empty hut, do jhana...

Frank,



I searched for jāyatha, maybe that explains the discrepancies. I can do another search if necessary. What is DPR, by the way?



Rosa





_____

From: Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of frank
Sent: dimarts, 5 / gener / 2010 17:27
To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: how many suttas end with "here is a tree, empty hut, do jhana..." Re: Antw.: [Pali] Re: Was the Buddha Obliged to Observe Vinaya Rules?, no 5.





Thanks Rosa! I had the impression the phrase was even more frequent than
that, but it's probably because there are certain key suttas such as [M
152] that I tend to re-read frequently, resulting in that impression.
Playing around this morning I just realized DPR can do a much wider
search than only the current window/sutta. Doing the widest search for
"empty hut" in DPR results in:
Search Results for *su~n~naagaaraani: * DN:
<javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfDN')> 0, MN:
<javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfMN')> 4, SN:
<javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfSN')> 7, AN:
<javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfAN')> 4, KN:
<javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfKN')> 0, Vin:
<javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfVin')> 0, Abhi:
<javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfAbhi')> 0

The lack of results in Samyutta presumably is due to the "..." sutta
repetitions that are ellipsed out. I manually looked through the ending
page of each of the 34 DN suttas (maurice walshe version) yesterday,
and confirmed the lack of the phrase in DN. Your search results below
found 3 occurences in MN, DPR reported 4, I'm going to look into that
discrepancy right now and get back to you guys later today or tomorrow...

-Frank

On 1/5/2010 12:25 AM, Rosa Grau gmail wrote:
>
> Your search results:
>
> 1 Etāni bhikkhave, rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, māpamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino AN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 2 Etāni bhikkhave, rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni jhāyatha bhikkhave,
> mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino AN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 3 Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha bhikkhave,
> mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino MN I_utf8.txt
>
> 4 Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave,
> mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 5 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 6 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 7 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 8 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 9 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 10 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 11 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 12 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 13 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 14 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 15 Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 16 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 17 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 18 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 19 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 20 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 21 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 22 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 23 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 24 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 25 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 26 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 27 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 28 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 29 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 30 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 31 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 32 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 33 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 34 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 35 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 36 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 37 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 38 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 39 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 40 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 41 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 42 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 43 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 44 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 45 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 46 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 47 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 48 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 49 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 50 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 51 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 52 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 53 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 54 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 55 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 56 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 57 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 58 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 59 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 60 Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave
> mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 61 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave
> mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 62 ā. Etāni bhikkhu rukkhamūlāni. Etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha bhikkhu,
> mā pamādattha. Mā pacchā vippaṭisārino a AN III_utf8.txt
>
> 63 . Etāni bhikkhu, rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha bhikkhu,
> mā pamādattha. Mā pacchā vippaṭisārino a AN III_utf8.txt
>
> 64 ayā. Etāni cunda rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha cunda mā
> pamādattha. Mā pacchā vippaṭisārino ahuv MN I_utf8.txt
>
> 65 āraṃ sumāpitaṃ, So tattha patisallino eko rahasi jhāyatha. 2615. Sa
> rājā paridevesi putatasokena aṭṭito, J IV_utf8.txt
>
> 66 khaluṅkajjhāyitaṃ hoti. 1. Saddho machasaṃ. 2. Jhāyatha sīmu. 3.
> Bandho syā, [BJT Page 610] [\x 610/] AN V_utf8.txt
>
> 67 hamāne sampavedhamāne passatha dakkhatha oloketha jhāyatha
> upaparikkhathāti 'mamāyite passatha phandamāne. ' Nidd I_utf8.txt
>
> 68 ā. Etāni ānanda, rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha ānanda,
> mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino ah MN II_utf8.txt
>
> Rosa
>
> _____
>
> From: Pali@... <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com> com <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:Pali@... <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com> com <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>] On
> Behalf Of frank
> Sent: dilluns, 4 / gener / 2010 17:40
> To: Pali@... <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com> com <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: how many suttas end with "here is a tree, empty hut, do
> jhana..." Re: Antw.: [Pali] Re: Was the Buddha Obliged to Observe
> Vinaya Rules?, no 5.
>
> on compulsory meditation:
> I was just reading [S 43] yesterday, the samyutta on asankhata (the
> unconditoned, i.e. nibbana). This would be CDOB p. 1372. On the DPI,
> Samyutta book 4, vaggo 9. I could be misreading the "..." ellipses that
> reduce repetition, but it looks to me as if every single sutta in that
> samyutta ends with the famous sequence of "here is a foot of a tree, an
> empty hut, do jhana monks...":
>
> (cut and paste stock phrase from DPI)
> yam., <javascript:postout('ya.m,',849)> bhikkhave,
> <javascript:postout('bhikkhave,',850)> sattha-ra-
> <javascript:postout('satthaaraa',851)> karan.i-yam.
> <javascript:postout('kara.niiya.m',852)> sa-vaka-nam.
> <javascript:postout('saavakaana.m',853)> hitesina-
> <javascript:postout('hitesinaa',854)> anukampakena
> <javascript:postout('anukampakena',855)> anukampam.
> <javascript:postout('anukampa.m',856)> upa-da-ya,
> <javascript:postout('upaadaaya,',857)> katam.
> <javascript:postout('kata.m',858)> vo <javascript:postout('vo',859)>
> tam. <javascript:postout('ta.m',860)> maya-.
> <javascript:postout('mayaa.',861)> eta-ni,
> <javascript:postout('etaani,',862)> bhikkhave,
> <javascript:postout('bhikkhave,',863)> rukkhamu-la-ni,
> <javascript:postout('rukkhamuulaani,',864)> eta-ni
> <javascript:postout('etaani',865)> suñña-ga-ra-ni.
> <javascript:postout('su~n~naagaaraani.',866)> jha-yatha,
> <javascript:postout('jhaayatha,',867)> bhikkhave,
> <javascript:postout('bhikkhave,',868)> ma-
> <javascript:postout('maa',869)> pama-dattha;
> <javascript:postout('pamaadattha;',870)> ma-
> <javascript:postout('maa',871)> paccha-
> <javascript:postout('pacchaa',872)> T <javascript:void(0)>
> vippat.isa-rino <javascript:postout('vippa.tisaarino',874)> ahuvattha.
> <javascript:postout('ahuvattha.',875)> ayam.
> <javascript:postout('aya.m',876)> vo <javascript:postout('vo',877)>
> amha-kam. <javascript:postout('amhaaka.m',878)> anusa-sani-"ti.
> <javascript:postout('anusaasanii``ti.',879)> pat.hamam..
> <javascript:postout('pa.thama.m.',880)>
>
> This whole section [S 43] deals with how unconditioned is arrived at via
> mindfulness of body, samatha, vipassana, and the 37 aids to
> enlightenment. After enumerating each set, it ends with the "... do
> jhana monks... " phrase.
> I wonder how many suttas in all the nikayas end with that paragraph? If
> we remove suttas addressed to laity, etc, and only look at suttas
> dealing with development of wisdom, concentration, mindfulness, I bet a
> really high % of suttas end with "do jhanas, monks..." any tech savvy
> people on this list ever do a search for " rukkhamu-la-ni,
> <javascript:postout('rukkhamuulaani,',864)> eta-ni
> <javascript:postout('etaani',865)> suñña-ga-ra-ni.
> <javascript:postout('su~n~naagaaraani.',866)> jha-yatha,
> <javascript:postout('jhaayatha,',867)> " on the pali nikayas and tally
> it up? We could get an answer to that question pretty quick.
>
> -Frank
>
> On 1/4/2010 3:14 AM, ashinpan wrote:
> >
> >
> > Dear Nina,
> >
> > Sorry, I have just come back from a trip hence this late reply.
> >
> > You wrote:
> >
> > > We are bound to be distressed about an unpleasant experience such as
> > > an insult or a loss of dear people, but when we begin to develop
> > > pa~n~naa we can gradually learn from such an experience. Sometimes,
> > > when there are conditions, we may even be glad and full of confidence
> > > in the Triple Gem, as we also read in this sutta:
> > > < Tassa ce aavuso bhikkhuno eva.m Buddha.m anussarato eva.m Dhamma.m
> > > anussarato eva.m Sa"nga.m anussarato
> > > But if, when a bhikkhu recollects the Enlightened One, the Teaching
> > > and the Community,
> > > upekhaa kusalanissitaa sa.n.thaati, so tena attamano hoti...
> > > equanimity with the beneficial (kusala dhamma) as its support,
> > > becomes established in him, then he is satisfied.>
> > >
> > > Chapter I of the Visuddhimagga deals with siila, and passages on the
> > > fourfold purification of siila can also be partly applied by a
> > > layfollower in his own situation. We read in the Visuddhimagga (I,
> > > 100, 101), that restraint of the sense faculties should be undertaken
> > > with mindfulness, and <When not undertaken thus, virtue of Patimokkha
> > > restraint is unenduring: it does not last, like a crop not fenced in
> > > with branches...>
> > > Also laypeople can remember that without satipa.t.thaana one is bound
> > > to give in to akusala in thought, speech and action, there will be
> > > impatience and intolerance.
> > > We read in Vis. I, 49-51:
> > > <Proper resort as support: a good friend. Proper resort as guarding.
> > > Proper resort as anchoring:<It is the four foundations of mindfulness
> > > on which the mind is anchored; for this is said by the Blessed
> > > One:'Bhikkhus, what is a bhikkhu's resort, his own native place? It
> > > is these four "foundations of mindfulness" (S.V, 148).>
> > > These are like an anchor both for monks and laypeople.
> > >
> > > The following text of the Diigha Nikaaya, Mahaaparibbaanasutta (80)
> > > shows clearly the impact of aniccaa sa~n~naa and anattaa sa~n~naa on
> > > siila, good morality as to thought, speech and action. This
> > > encouraging text that refers to the Order of monks is also beneficial
> > > for laypeople:
> > >
> > > <So long as the brethren shall exercise themselves in the realization
> > > of the ideas of the impermanency of all phenomena, bodily and mental,
> > > the absence [in them of any abiding principle] of any "soul", of
> > > corruption, of the danger of wrong thoughts, of the necessity of
> > > getting rid of them, of purity of heart, of Nibbaana- so long may the
> > > brethren be expected not to decline, but to prosper.>
> >
> > I agree with your comments and conclusions. All the sources you have
> > quoted are from the Sutta Pi.taka, where we can meet the Buddha as a
> > guide, as a patient teacher. However, in Vinaya we see the Buddha as
> > an enforcer of law who practiced the policy of "carrot or stick". All
> > Paatimokkha precepts, for example, are in the format of "Don't do this
> > or else".
> >
> > I agree that meditation like satipa.t.thaana can really help
> > individual monks to observe Vinaya rules but there is no rule to force
> > monks to meditate. I sometimes wonder why the Buddha has not made
> > meditation compulsory for monks.
> >
> > with metta
> >
> > Ven. Pandita
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
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