Dear DC,
No problem if you do not agree. It is always useful when there are
disagreements, at least for me. I can consider more what I understand
and what not yet.
I can only take one point at a time.
Op 22-dec-2009, om 13:11 heeft DC Wijeratna het volgende geschreven:

> N: Vi~n~naa.nakkhandha is the same as citta (I can give you a sutta
> text
> but do not wish to make my mails too long)."
>
> THIS IS NOT TRUE, as far as Dhamma is concerned. In the
> Pa.ncupaadaanakkhandha analysis, we have vedanaa, sa~n~naa,
> sa.nkhaaraq, vi~n~naana. Usually citta refers to the whole lot.
> "cittena niiyati loko". Therefore, what you have written after this
> on this topic is adhamma.

------
N: The words citta, mano and vi~n~naa.na are the same in meaning,
they are the paramattha dhamma that is citta, consciousness. We read
in the �Kindred Sayings� (II, Nidaana-sa.myutta, Ch VII, 61:<Ya.m ca
kho eta.m bhikkhave vuccati citta.m iti pi mano iti pi vi~n~na.m iti
pi...
Yet this, monks, what we call indeed thought (citta), mind,
consciousness (by this the untaught manyfolk are not able to feel
repelled)...>
However, in different contexts there is a differentiation of terms.
The aggregate of consciousness is called vi~n~naa.nakkhandha, and it
includes all cittas. For seeing-consciousness, the word
cakkhuvi~n~naa.na is used.
------
As to the text "cittena niiyati loko" , this refers to kamma. S. I.
By kamma the world is led...
We should not think of an underlying wholeness of the khandhas,
they are just naama elements and ruupa elements.
Ven. Bodhi translated the co. to the Cariyapi.taka including the
meanings of Tathaagatha:< 'There is no other reality or
'thusness' (as the Uttarapathakas and many others today held/hold)of
some underlying 'wholeness' of khandhas together. There are just
distinct conditioned elements or khandhas arising and falling away
and the unconditioned element, nibbana.>
--------
DC: For a puthujjana, Dear Nina, the practice is 'majjhimaa
pa.tipadaa', the middle path. The 'three rounds' (eva.m
tipariva.t.ta.m dvaadasaakaara.m...) that you mentioned above are
for Ariyans. That is how you 'understand ' (abhisambodhi) the four
Ariyan truths. To get there you have to first get to sammaadi.t.thi
(See MN 9).
May you get there one day.
---------
N: Thanks for your good wishes, and 'getting there' can happen only
if one does not cling to 'my sati' or if one does not wish for the
result to take place quickly. It is ciira kaala bhaavana, a long time
practice. But: there is the present moment, reality appearing at the
present moment. We should not think too much of the future. It all
depends on conditions what will happen.

Now also ariyans had to begin as puthujjanas. Without the first round
there can never be enlightenment. There are many degrees of
sammaadi.t.thi. It is weak at first, and it can become firmer:
understanding the present reality. When realizing the arising and
falling away of seeing, visible object or any dhamma appearing now,
one begins to understand the first noble truth. What arises and falls
away is dukkha, this is sa"nkhaara dukkha.
Again, no need to agree with me.

Nina.


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