Dear Jayarava,

First of all I'm delighted that you have an interest in Pali Suttas. Gone
are the days of
"Theravada-bashing" I hope. Even then, I try to keep up with a remarkable
group of
Buddhists monastics and lay followers who are working at a cross-linguistic
approach
(using whatever ancient texts are available) to have a better idea what the
Buddha is
trying to tell us through all the layers of oral transmission and later
traditions.

I work with the Pali texts as a "living" religion, not as a dead "book
religion." When I
translate I try to remind myself would my audience understand this, and
would this
help in their meditation (as it would my own practice).

This is difficult that there is no common effort or some kind of global
committee of
qualified Palilogists and Buddhologists who are also practitioners who can
harmoniously
work together to produce a really acceptable and effective translation.

I value criticisms in that it is a sign of concern that things can be
better.

The translation regarding "confession" needs some rethinking, you are right.


All that we have to understand the Buddha Word is language, and we have to
make the
best of it. I'm not sure even if Pali (amongst the numerous other languages
used in the
ancient Buddhist text) exactly conveys the Buddha's message completely and
correctly.
For that reason we often hear the Buddha telling us he is not attached to
words, but uses
them expediently (like signboards to a destination).

In the Samannaphala Sutta, for example, the Buddha is said to have sat down
facing
eastwards, but in a Chinese translation (as noted by Graeme MacQueen)
renders this
as the Buddha sitting "facing south" (which is the way the emperor sat"),
which strikes
a chord with the Chinese reader.

Furthermore, we see the Buddha repeatedly using brahminical and Vedic
terminology.
(Indeed there are very few "original" Buddhist words, but mostly recycled
words given
Buddhist clothing): tevijja, dhamma, arahata, nahataka, etc. This is almost
like the modern
Buddhist speaker (like Thich Nhat Hanh) using (or recycling) biblical terms
which the
christianised westerner or Singaporean could easily relate to and so act as
a bridge to the
Dharma.

I want take some time to meditate on your suggestion and the re-translation
of pa.tigga.nhaama,
and so on.

Anyway, if you find it somewhat distracting to communicate here, please feel
free to communicate
directly with me.

Please bear with my ignorance and stupidity all these world-cycles.

With best wishes of the present moment,

Piya Tan

On Jan 20, 2008 7:03 PM, jayarava <jayarava@...> wrote:

> --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com <Pali%40yahoogroups.com>, "Piya Tan"
> <dharmafarer@...> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Jayarava,
> >
> > You are right. The older translations tend to read a bit of
> > Protestantism into it...
>
> Hi Piya,
>
> Thanks for your reply, I read your translation, and... oh dear, you
> also have introduced a foreign element into the story. If confession
> is quite simply an error, then so is "forgive". The Buddha clearly
> does not forgive the kings revalation, but merely *accepts it*
> (pa.tigga.nhaama). Indeed when the king is gone the Buddha tells the
> monks he is wounded (khattaaya.m) and done for (upahataaya.m) - your
> "uprooted and tormented" is quit interpretive, but I suppose it does
> convey the spirit of the text and Ajaatasattu's inability to make a
> breakthrough on hearing the Buddha's words. But in what sense does the
> Buddha forgive Ajaatasattu? In what sense *can* the Buddha forgive him?
>
> > I noticed this "problem" when I was translating it some time back.
> > However, I have used "confession" as a subtitle in a contemporary
> > non-techical sense just to ease reading a long text that has
> > repetitive passages.
>
> Yes "confession" kind of works in that place since we would understand
> what he says as a confession? The Burmese edition emphasises the King
> becoming an Upasaka in its subtitle. (I have the VRI CD, and the Thai
> Buddha Jayanti on the web, but no access to the PTS)
>
>
>



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