Hi Rett and group,

For the syntactical problem of the use of gen.to denote agent in
construction with ta-participles, see the Sanskrit examples quoted in
Wackernagel-Debrunner: Altindische Grammatik Vol. II.2 p. 583 b). This usage
is undoubtedly an archaism as there are many Vedic parallels. You will find
the same type of construction in Epic Sanskrit like Mahaabhaarata III
156.14: yasyaite (yasya gen. + ete) puujitaa.h: who honored these. The Pali
canon evidently reflects the same usage.

OP

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Fra: Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af rett
Sendt: 6. februar 2006 22:06
Til: Pali@yahoogroups.com
Emne: Re: SV: SV: [Pali] obscure verse

>
>
>The use of the genitive in construction with ta-participles is common in

the

>language of the Pali canon. This use is recorded as early as Vedic

Sanskrit.

>I believe that the reason why the enclitic pronouns vo, me, no etc. have
>been considered instrumentals in Pali is because this syntactical function
>has not been recognised. Panini mentions it at A II.3:67. He also records
>the use of the genitive with so-called future participles at A II.3:71 to
>denote the agent. There are more than just a handful of such examples in

the

>canon where one would expect the instrumental, like, for instance,
>akara.niiyo Maarassa A IV 109: Maara is unable to attack him (viz. the
>monk), Maara is also quoted saying: akara.niiyo mayham (sic). For once the
>pronoun is not enclitic.
>

Hi Ole and group,

I was aware of genitives being optionally used with the future passive
participles (fpp), but it is fairly new to me that they are used with past
passive participles (ppp or -ta participle).

I looked at A II 3:67 (and 68), but they seem to be restricted to a couple
of very specific instances, and evam me sutam wouldn't appear to be covered
by those rules. 67 is restricted to the sense of the present tense, the
example given being ( tr to pali) rañño puujito. 'worshiped by the king'.

68 is a bit cryptic (to me) but refers to expressing location. Ex (tr. to
pali) idam etesa.m sayitam. 'this is their sleeping (place?)'

So my question would be whether the non-enlitic-pronominal cases in the pali
canon are all examples of these two rules, or whether there are further
usages of genitive with -ta that aren't noted by Panini. The latter wouldn't
surprise me, since there are obviously a number of syntactic facts that
weren't noted by the ancient grammarians. These must have been learned by
writers in a more natural way through their reading.

Finally I'd wonder what those further uses of the genitive with ppp's are,
since I doubt that it is simply optional and can be substituted for the
instrumental whenever one please.

I'm just asking in case this has been studied and you know of some of the
results offhand. I'm not asking anyone to put their lives on hold to study
the question, though, as usual, if anyone comes across examples in their
reading I'd love to hear about them.

best regards,

/Rett




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