Hi Rett and group,

The use of the genitive in construction with ta-participles is common in the
language of the Pali canon. This use is recorded as early as Vedic Sanskrit.
I believe that the reason why the enclitic pronouns vo, me, no etc. have
been considered instrumentals in Pali is because this syntactical function
has not been recognised. Panini mentions it at A II.3:67. He also records
the use of the genitive with so-called future participles at A II.3:71 to
denote the agent. There are more than just a handful of such examples in the
canon where one would expect the instrumental, like, for instance,
akara.niiyo Maarassa A IV 109: Maara is unable to attack him (viz. the
monk), Maara is also quoted saying: akara.niiyo mayham (sic). For once the
pronoun is not enclitic.

OP

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Fra: Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af rett
Sendt: 6. februar 2006 09:25
Til: Pali@yahoogroups.com
Emne: Re: SV: [Pali] obscure verse


Hi John and group,

>
>This commonly putting the agent of ta-particples in genitive, is this
>discussed in Warder somewhere? I don't recall seeing it before. Are
>there other common examples from the canon that you can share with us?

I'm looking forward to an answer from Ole on this one as well, but based on
what he has proposed elsewhere I'd like to jump ahead and guess that the
most common examples would be with the enclitic pronouns me, no, te. Geiger
says that these can be instr, dat, gen in the singular and acc, instr, dat,
gen in the plural. But if you don't agree that the enclitics can be
instrumentals, then you have many cases of genitives with ppp-s. Evam me
suta.m would be a typical example. The Geigerians would say this = Evam
mayaa suta.m. Others would call it an example of a genitive as agent of a
ppp (-ta participle).

To me it's more of a question of definitions. As case systems collapse and a
single form starts to stand for what previously were two cases (as with
genitive and dative in Pali) do you say there is now only a single case with
a wider range of application, or do you continue to distinguish the cases
according to their case-syntactic functions, despite their coalescence in
form? Since these collapses aren't uniform ('real' datives are still
sometimes used, as in dative of purpose for example) the problems can get a
bit complicated.

If we only find genitives for the agents of ppp-s in the enclitics, I would
tend to explain it as the enclitics having widened their scope to include
genitives. But if there are examples where inflected nouns in the genitive
unambiguously are the agents of a ppp, then it becomes easier to argue that
the enclitic forms also are genitives.

best regards,

/Rett


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