SV: Re: [Pali] New to board...looking to purchase copy of the Pali

I don't know what happened here...I posted a response to this thread
but it appears to be lost. Anyway I wanted to say thanks. I had a
nice response prepared and maybe someone found it out of place.

One of the things I mentioned was, I think it is important to leave
things a bit uninterpreted: a more word for word translation. Beside
the fact of "era speech" I don't want someone else's interpretation.

For instance Generosity, in line with one of the Paramitas. I've
seen many different interpretations of what this means. My favorite
was what Chongya Trungpa (sp?) referred to as communication.
Generosity is interpreted as communication. As in Right Speech.

How often are we generous without speaking? Right Speech is speaking
without expecting anything in return.

Jeff

--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, madan tandon <tandons4@...> wrote:
>
> In my understanding of Hindi and some Sanskrit , I would say that
the translation of "Bhikkhu" is more like... A person having no
possessions, material that is, and the implied meaning of the
word "Bhikkhu" is extrapolated to having high ideals , and no
material possessons.
>
> biloo_5
>
> PS. Could somebody kindly refer me to some links of Pali
literature in Devnagari script and English translations?
> -------------------------------
--
>
>
> Gunnar Gällmo <gunnargallmo@...> wrote:
> --- redlotustemple@... skrev:
>
> > Also, up to date language can be filled with much
> > slang and inappropriate
> > methods of speaking and structure from an academic
> > standpoint. Myself being a
> > Buddhist priest
>
> I think "priest" is a wrong word for "bhikkhu", since
> you don't administer any sacraments. "Monk" is better,
> but still not good, as your order is not cloistered.
> "Friar" would be preferable (in the same way as there
> are no Franciscan monks, only Franciscan friars), but
> I more and more prefer just to say "bhikkhu".
>
> > the need for such language creates
> > an appropriate tone setting
> > of the language and keeps a foundation of edified
> > translation of the spoken
> > form. Similar to the use of old and new English in
> > Bible translations,
> > incredible levels of structure and meaning are lost
> > and immensely impact one's
> > internalizing the meaning of the words themselves.
>
> Ideally, a translation should have the same stilistic
> level for its readers or listeners now as the original
> text had for its readers or listeners then. In the
> case of the Bible, or at least the New Testament, I
> have been told that the original text was not archaic
> at all (it's Greek is Koiné, not Classical); so to
> read it today in Elizabethan English will not give a
> correct impression, and may give you "incredible
> levels of structure and meaning" created by the
> translators rather than the authors.
>
> So in the case of Pali proze, I think archaisms should
> be avoided, as far as they aren't clearly there in the
> original. Pali poetry is a slightly different case, as
> it *does* contain some archaisms; still we shouldn't
> forget that the Tipitaka was not formulated in
> Sanskrit, as would have been natural if its first
> editors had had the same attitude as today's advocates
> of King James' Bible, but in one of the Prakrits, i.
> e. in an idiom that was probably of a rather everyday
> character at the time, at least in the proze parts.
>
> I also think euphemisms should be avoided, as not
> quite consistent with the ideal of clearly seeing
> things as they really are. I am thinking especially of
> Horner´s "obeying the calls of nature", where Neumann
> follows the Pali text much more bluntly: "Entleerung
> von Kot und Harn" (if I remember correctly).
>
> Gunnar
>
>
>
>
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