Dear Robert, Gunnar, Connie, and Htoo Naing,

As I did not have access to the Internet these times, I couldn't
thank you for your most welcome help and advice. I cannot assuredly
recall the text of the sutta I had in mind, but it is most probably
MN 22, as you have suggested. Indeed, it is a great privilege to
have access to a group such as this one!

As for the comments some of you have made:

Robert:
It seemed to me the text implied that the faith-disciple is
*forever* bound to be reborn in higher planes, without ever
returning to a human (or infernal-ghostly-animal) live. In that
case, his situation would be quite similar to the one described by
the three "Pure Land sutras". It is true that even in that case, the
evidence would be feeble, but my point was not to "prove" Pure Land
doctrines (which I do not believe) but rather to see if there is any
slightest argument in their favour. Whatever the case, my reasoning
does not hold as the sutta clearly speaks only of the next birth,
not the subsequent ones.


Gunnar:

As I explained to Robert, my impression was the sutta announced deva-
births till awakening, thus "mimicking" a "pure land" where one may
pursue practice until Unbinding.
S.B.G., as you noticed, does stand for Société bouddhiste Gotama,
which is, fortunately, not a one-man society. Rather, my being its
secretary has accustomed me to sign with this acronym.


Once again, many thanks to you all,
With metta,

Nguyen Tin.
--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "htootintnaing" <htootintnaing@...>
wrote:

>
> --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "societe_bouddhiste_gotama"
> <societe_bouddhiste_gotama@...> wrote:
> >
> > Dear brothers and sisters in the Dhamma,
> >
> > Not so long ago I've read some sutta in which the Buddha's

states

> that
> > any layman fully convinced in the merits of the Buddha-Dhamma-
> Sangha
> > is sure to be reborn among the devas, even if he does not attain
> > stream entry in this life. This seems to give some canonical
> evidence
> > for the well known Pure Land (Sukkhavati) claims as to

the "faith-

> > driven salvation". Unfortunately, I cannot retrieve the before
> > mentionned sutta !
> >
> > If someone has the sutta name, or some other helpful

information,

> may
> > he speak as to dispell my ignorance.
> >
> >
> >
> > Many thanks,
> > metta,
> >
> > S.B.G.
> -------------------------------------------------------------------

--

>
> Dear S.B.G (Rob K,Connie, and all),
>
> It is Mahaasamaya Sutta.
>
> 2. (latter part),
>
> ''Ye kesi Buddha.m sarana.m gataase,
> Na te gamissanti apaayabhuumi.
>
> Pahaaya maanusa.m deha.m,
> devakaaya.m paripuuressantii'ti.''
>
> 'Venerable Sir, those who take the refuge in the Buddha would not
> be reborn in the lower destinations.
>
> After discarding humanly body (after death), they would be reborn
> in deva worlds''.
>
> With Metta,
>
> Htoo Naing
>