Hi Dmytro and All,

>Dmytro wrote:
> Stream-entry is also 'supermundane path and fruition', so the
>passage
> you cited does not refer to the attainment of Nibbana.

My understanding is that a sotaapannas 'supermundane path and
fruition' is synonymous with the attainment of Nibbana.

From Mahathera Ledi Sayadaws CATUSACCA-DIPANI>
"From the moment they attain the Path of stream-winning, they are
delivered from such evils as sakkaya-ditthi (personality-belief),
vicikiccha, ducarita-durajiva (evil actions and bad livelihood), and
apaya-dukkha, and have thus attained sa-upadisesa-nibbana"

http://www.ubakhin.com/ledi/MANUAL05.html

> There is no argument that stream-entry is attainble without jhana.
>
> "... a certain person is complete in virtues, incomplete in
> concentration and incomplete in wisdom. Destroying three bonds he
> transmigrates as a human or god the most seven times and makes end

of

> unpleasantness. Saariputta, this is the eighth person who dies with
> substratum, released, from hell, from animal birth, from the sphere

of

> ghosts and released from loss and hellish births."
>
> However further progress requires completion of concentration
> development, see "Sa-upaadisesasutta.m - With substratum

remaining", AN

> 4.378.
>
> http://metta.lk/tipitaka/2Sutta-Pitaka/4Anguttara-

Nikaya/Anguttara6/09-navakanipata/002-sihanadavaggo-e.htm

Notes from Narada Maha Theras translation of Abhidhammattha Sangaha>

Saupadisesa - Sa = with; upadi = aggregates (mind and body); sesa =
remaining. Upadi, derived from upa + a + da, to take, means the five
aggregates as they are firmly grasped by craving and false views. It
also signifies passions (kilesas).
According to the text and the Commentarial interpretations, Nibbana,
experienced by Sotapannas, Sakadagamis, and Anagamis, is saupadisesa-
nibbanadhatu as they have the body and some passions still remaining.
Nibbana of the Arahats is also saupadisesa-nibbanadhatu as they have
the body still remaining. It is only the Nibbana of the Arahats after
their death that is termed anupadisesa-nibbanadhatu because the
aggregates and the passions are discarded by them.

http://www.palikanon.com/english/sangaha/sangaha.htm

Reading the suttas you and I have quoted with the above commentarial
interpretation, all Ariyan beings including Sotapannas have
experienced Nibbana (saupadisesa-nibbanadhatu) at attainment of
lokuttara magga.


Rgrds
Steve