Hi Geoff,

op 18-02-2005 22:07 schreef sunnaloka op sunnaloka@...:

>
> Katama.m viparinaamasuñña.m
> jaata.m ruupa.m sabhaavena suñña.m,

vigata.m ruupa.m viparinatañ c'eva suññañ ca
Ven. Nanamoli's translation:
N: Treatise on Voidness, (XX, p. 357):
5. What is voidness in change? Born materiality is void of individual
essence (sabhaava);
disappeared nateriality is both changed and void.


Geoff:Here' s my updated but still dubious translation:

>
> How is change empty?
> Because form is produced, it is empty of own-nature.
> A form is ceased (ceases) because it is changeable (changed) and
> empty.

N: This treatise begins with a sutta quote (S. IV, 54) the 'world' is void ,
namely void of the self. The khandhas are the world void of the self.
Then different meanings and aspects of voidness are given.
One of these is voidness in change.
As to 'individual essence' as a transl of sabhaava, this is controversial. I
prefer: its own nature, but this nature is only present for an extremely
short moment.
The Co. refutes opinions that void of sabhaava means that it never was
present, by stating that this was said of ruupa that is born or arisen.
Nina: thus: it has arisen, it decays and falls away.

Ven. Nanamoli gives in a long footnote the co. One of the meanings of void
of individual essence is void through having voidness as individual essence.
N: I would say: void, because of having voidness as its characteristic.
N (my own words): as to the text: vigata.m ruupa.m: it has disappeared, but
it was present before. It is subject to change and falls away. It is void,
without a core, non-self.
The Co states as to <disappeared materiality is both changed and void.>:
Changeability (viparinama) by decay (jaraa) and falling away. And being void
of this changeability: because changeability appears of the rupa that is
present, there is no changeability of the rupa that is past.
This is a short text with a long commentary.

G: Ven. Nanamoli's translation would be helpful (I'm not sure on the
policy regarding sharing PTS quotations.
N: Quotations never are a problem.
Nina.