Further,

Na khvha.m ettha bhante bhagavato saddhaaya gacchaami. (Sariputta in Pubba,ko.t.thaka Sutta,
S 48.44)

In the Niga,n.tha Naataputta Sutta (S 41.8), the householder Citta answers in these words,
which is a pun, to Niga.n.tha Naataputtas question, Householder, do you have faith in the
ascetic Gotama when he says, There is a concentraction without applied thought and sustained
thought, there is a cessation of applied thought and sustained thought'? (S 41.8.5/ 4:298).
In the case of the astute Citta, he is laying a verbal trap which he later springs. While he
appears to be disclaiming allegiance to the Buddha, he is actually asserting that he has
realized the truth of the Buddhas statement by personal experience and thus need not rely on
mere faith in his word.

BTW, bhante Pesala, you might already know that according to SnA 475 pesala = piyasiila (the
latter was my ordained name, which I now usually shorten to piya.

Namakkara & Sukhi

Piya

Piya Tan wrote:

> PS
>
> The Chinese Dharmapada cognate to Dh 97 reads:
>
> He who has given up craving and is detached
> Who has broken the hindrances of the three spheres,
> And whose desires are annihilated
> --Is indeed a superior man.
>
> ("The Chinese Dharmapada," tr Kuala Lumpur Dhammajoti, Singapore: Mann Fatt Lam Buddhist
> Temple, 1990:65).
>
> Notice this is very different from the Pali verse.
>
> In his fn, Dhammajoti mentions: Udv (Skt) 29.23, Udv (C1) 23 p750c; Udv (C2) 22 p793b;
> Taisho 31 p773b; Taisho 32 6 p288a; TbUdv(E) 21 p120.
>
> KEY
> Udv = Udanavarga
> Udv(C1) = Chu Yau Jing (T4 no 212).
> Udv (C2) = Fa Ji Yau Sung Jing (T4 no 213).
> Udv (Skt) = Sanskrit Udaanavarga of the Sarvaastivaada See:
> (1) NP Chakravarti, "L'Udaanavarga Sanskrit," Paris, 1930).
> (2) F Bernhard. "Zum Titel des sogenannten 'Udaanavarga.'" Zeitschrift der Desutschen
> Morganlandischen Gesellschaft, Supplementa 1 Deutscher Orientalistentag Juli 1968,
> Wiesbaden, 1969:872-881.
> TbUdv(E) = G Sparham, "The Tibetan Dhammapada," Delhi, 1983.
>
> Piya Tan wrote:
>
> > Bhante Pesala & Paliyanussarii,
> >
> > Dh 97 is a fascinating verse, indeed. It should be studied with the Pubba,ko.t.thaka
> > Sutta, "On the Eastern Gatehouse" (S 48.44/5:220-222), which probably had the same
> > verse but was somehow lost. We know this because the Mahaa Niddesa (Nm 235-237),
> > explaining "na saddho na virajjati" (Puraabheda Sutta, Sn 853, cf Sn 813) quotes the
> > Pubba,ko.t.thaka Sutta concluding with quoting Dh 97.
> >
> > This is what KR Norman says: see "Dhammapada 97: a misunderstood paradox" (Indologica
> > Taurinensia 7 1979:325-331, repr "Collected Papers vol 2" Oxford: PTS, 1991:187-193
> > (ch 46)).
> >
> > It is possible however that the Nm 237 quote is just that, a quote, and not a part of
> > the Pubba,ko.t.thaka Sutta. However, a comparison with the Samyukt'aagama (Chinese
> > tr) would help.
> >
> > This verse is connected to Sariputta's liberation which is not based on faith (not
> > amuulika saddhaa, anyway), ie not "saddhati," taking someone's word for it, but
> > through his self-realization, ie wisdom.
> >
> > "Akata~n~nuu" here is a 'sle.sa (wordplay) (see Radhakrishnan, Dhammapada tr,
> > 1950:92), besides meaning "ungrateful" it also means na kata ~nuu (remarkable
> > wordplay!), ie "knowing the uncreated (ie Nirvana)."
> >
> > "Sandhi-c,cheda," cutting off the connection, ie breaking off the re-connection of
> > rebirth.
> >
> > "Hat^avakaasa" is interpreted by Norman as "one who has got rid of occasions (for
> > quarrels, etc)" or "rid of opportunities (for rebirth)."
> >
> > "Vantaasa" can be rendered (following PED) as "one who has abandoned desire"
> > (Norman).
> >
> > Here we have the Buddha (or some ancient Buddhist bha.naka or sa.ngiitikaara or poet)
> > showing his profound humour. That's why the Buddha image always smiles!
> >
> > Please read Norman's article for the full meal of Pali delight.
> >
> > This is one of those occasions when we should reflect Gombrich's remark during his
> > Jan 2003 interview about the Buddha's genius, unknown or disregarded by many (most?)
> > Buddhists:
> >
> > "I believe that the Buddha was an intellectual genius and had some extraordinarily
> > interesting things to say. This is something that most Buddhists simply don't take
> > any interest in." (Gombrich, Jan 2003)
> >
> > I had an opportunity to personally meet KR Norman briefly during one of Lewis
> > Lancaster's Buddhist seminars in Berkeley in the early 1990s. Norman is a remarkable
> > philologist (although not a "Buddhist") who has shed so much light over Pali.
> >
> > Sukhi
> >
> > Piya
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:
> >
> > > This Dhammapada verse is fascinating.
> > > Most of the words have double meanings.
> > > I could use some help. What do you make of it?
> > >
> > > Assaddho akatauu ca, sandhicchedo ca yo naro
> > > Hataavakaaso vantaso, sa ve uttamaporiso.
> > >
> > > "The faithless and ungrateful murderer
> > > has ruined his future and eats vomit
> > > he is indeed an excellent man."
> > >
> > > or the positive meaning:
> > >
> > > "Not credulous, knowing the uncreate, having cut off rebirth
> > > and destroyed all results, having ejected all desires
> > > he is indeed an excellent man."
> > >
> > >
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