Re: Help requested for Pali trans. of Mahavamsa quote-Typo

Typo
an Arahant that becomes and active subject

> on History and Royal Chronicles is however a very rare event!!!!!

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An Arahant that becomes an active subject on History and Royal
Chronicles, etc...

Mettaya, Ícaro

>
>
>
> >
> > Thanks for the interesting posts, everyone.
> >
> > Metta,
> > John
> > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "rjkjp1" <rjkjp1@...> wrote:
> > > --- Dear Christine and John,
> > >
> > > The Mahavamsa is not part of the Tipitaka but is a chronicle of
> > > Kings and the Sangha, and of immense value, I feel.
> > > When we look at the texts do we believe they we can

distinguish

> > > what is true and what is not; do we think we have greater
> > > understanding than the monks of old who passed on the

teachings?

> > On
> > > this list someone believes he knows that suttas explaining
> literal
> > > rebirth were added in by misguided monks, another doesn't

> > the
> > > Abhidhamma. I read on another site someone saying that the

Buddha

> > > couldn't have made the 8 garukka rules for nuns, or said some

> > the
> > > other things he said about woman. Some think that the
> explanations
> > > about sukkhavipassaka arahants are monk inventions. As the

sasana

> > > declines there will be less refutation of such doubts and
> > gradually
> > > the texts will be neglected and replaced with ideas current in
> the
> > > culture at the time. It seems many wish to hasten this.
> > >
> > > The King was fighting in Sri lanka after the Tamil kings

invaded

> > > from India and had almost taken over the country.
> > >
> > > The duty of a King is grave and not to be envied. In one of the
> > > Jatakas the Buddha is born as a prince but remembers that his
> last
> > > life was 60,000 years being roasted in hell. And that was

because

> > in
> > > his prior life he was a King, (who no doubt had to fight and
> > inflict
> > > punishment). So he refused to be King again.
> > > Still whenever I hear of a wise person taking difficult duty I

> > > happy as I believe it is for the betterment of the society;
> > > otherwise only buffoons and ruffians will become presidents,
> > > generals, diplomats and police.
> > >
> > > The arahants
> > > knew that this king would do much for the Sangha and wanted to
> > help
> > > him out of his depression. (he became deeply depressed after
> > > considering the deaths of all thos involved in the war)..
> > > The abbreviated paragraph in the Mahavmasa may not do full
> justice
> > > to all the discussion they had with the King. But when you are
> > > relating hundreds of years and a long line of kings we can
> perhaps
> > > forgive the author some occasional dialogue editing.
> > >
> > > In the Dhammapada atthakattha there is the following story:
> > > http://www.vipassana.info/f.htm
> > > ""Tambadathika served the king as an executioner of thieves for
> > > fifty-five years; he had just retired from that post. One day,
> > after
> > > preparing rice gruel at his house, he went to the river for a
> > bath;
> > > he had intended to take the specially prepared rice gruel on

his

> > > return. As he was about to take the rice gruel, Thera

Sariputta,

> > who
> > > had just arisen from sustained absorption in Concentration

(jhana

> > > samapatti), stood at his door for alms-food. Seeing the thera,
> > > Tambadathika thought to himself, "Throughout my life, I have

been

> > > executing thieves; now I should offer this food to the thera."
> So,
> > > he invited Thera Sariputta to come in and respectfully offered
> the
> > > rice gruel.
> > > After the meal, the thera taught him the Dhamma, but

Tambadathika

> > > could not pay attention, because he was so agitated as he
> > > recollected his past life as an executioner. When the thera

knew

> > > this, he decided to ask Tambadathika tactfully whether he

killed

> > the
> > > thieves because he wished to kill them or because he was

ordered

> > to
> > > do so. Tambadathika answered that he was ordered to kill them

> > the
> > > king and that he had no wish to kill. Then the thera asked, "If
> > that
> > > is so, would you be guilty or not ?" Tambadathika then

concluded

> > > that, as he was not responsible for the evil deeds, he was not
> > > guilty. He, therefore, calmed down, and requested the thera to
> > > continue his exposition."""
> > >
> > > Perhaps if I had to put that into a sentence or two it might
> sound
> > > like I'm trying to say killing is no big deal. But if we know

the

> > > purpose of Sariputta - to calm the Executioner, so he could
> listen
> > > to Dhamma - we will understand better.
> > >
> > > It is said that giving even the washings of a teacup to some

fish

> > > will bring great merit. And then giving to a normal human much
> > more.
> > > But giving to someone who has just the beginning of faith in

the

> > > Dhamma much more than that. Giving to someone who understands
> > Dhamma
> > > and keeps the precepts much more again , giving to a sotapanna
> > much
> > > much more and so on. Likewise it is much worse to kill a
> sotapanna
> > > (from the point of view of the kammic results) than to kill a
> > normal
> > > human being. Worse to kill a person of average morality than a
> bad
> > > man.
> > > That is not to say that any killing is without result - simply
> > that
> > > the texts say that there are variations in kammic result. And
> this
> > > is what the arahants were stressing to the King. Nowhere do

they

> > say
> > > that killing doesn't bring a result.
> > >
> > > They (and he) knew that the Kamma was bad but dwelling on evil
> > done
> > > in the past can make matters worse. Best to encourage the

person

> > to
> > > do good deeds now and in the future. And the King, after that
> > > discussion, seemed almost superhuman in the energy he put into
> the
> > > projects for the benefit of the Ti-ratana, Triple gem.
> > > When I'm in Thailand I have had a few times someone confide in

> > > some illdeed that is bothering them and I always say words to

the

> > > effect of "Don't worry, its inconsequential, that's all in the
> > > past, Now you are a man
> > > (or woman ) of faith and the results of that are incomparable

and

> > > wonderful." And I mean it.
> > > RobertK
> > > p.s
> > > About the war the King said ""Not for the joy of sovereignty is
> > this
> > > toil of mine[the war], my striving (has been) ever to establish
> > the
> > > doctrine of the Sambuddha""
> > >
> > > He listened to his mother(like a good buddhist son):
> > > ""The king Dutthagamani also took counsel with his mother and

> > her
> > > counsel formed thirty-two bodies of troops. In these the king
> > placed
> > > parasol-bearers and figures of a king;' the monarch himself

took

> > his
> > > place in the innermost body of troops""
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "'Ninety-nine viharas have been built by the great king, and,
> with
> > > (the spending of) nineteen kotis, the Maricavattivihara; the
> > > splendid Lohapasada
> > > To his younger brother he said: 'All the work of the Great

Thüpa

> > > which is still unfinished, do thou complete, my dear Tissa,
> caring
> > > duly for it. Evening and morning offer thou flowers at the

Great

> > > Thupa and three times (in the day) command a solemn oblation at
> > the
> > > Great Thupa. All the ceremonies introduced by me in honour of

the

> > > doctrine of the Blessed (Buddha) do thou carry on, my dear,
> > stinting
> > > nothing. Never grow weary, my dear, in duty toward the
> > > brotherhood (sangha).'""
> > > http://lakdiva.org/mahavamsa/chap032.html
> > >
> > > In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "christine_forsyth" <cforsyth@...>
> wrote:
> > > > Dear Robert, John, all,
> > > >
> > > > Rob, I don't understand your question to John. On the

surface,

> > at
> > > > least, the quote below from the Mahavamsa seems at odds with
> the
> > > > teachings of the Fortunate One, don't you think? There were
> > > > reportedly 60,000 human beings killed by this King and his
> army.
> > > > (And, in the quote, the King and his soldiers seem to have

been

> > > > absolved from the vipaka of the deaths of 59,998.5 people

which

> > > are
> > > > discounted and trivialised.) This war, if it occurred, was

just

> > a
> > > > little footnote in history - not remembered today except in a
> > > > relatively obscure text. If it occurred, then this killing

was

> > in
> > > > brutal hand to hand combat. It takes a lot of intention,
> > effort,
> > > > fear and hatred to kill another human with a sword, knife,
> spear
> > > or
> > > > hammer - there are litres of blood, and noise - a lot of
> > running,
> > > > tackling, struggling, pleading, cursing - multiplied 60,000
> > times.
> > > > (WMD are so easy by comparison.)
> > > >
> > > > Perhaps you are considering that the Arahant's explanation is
> in
> > > > terms of anatta, that there really are no humans killing or
> > being
> > > > killed? But, the consolation was being given to a worldling,
> and
> > > has
> > > > no doubt been reflected on through the centuries by other
> > > worldlings
> > > > like me, who may not yet have penetrated the meaning of the
> > 4NT.
> > > > Additionally, there seems to be a dismissive devaluing of the
> > > taking
> > > > of the lives of Unbelievers ... my understanding is that the
> > > Buddha
> > > > taught us to respect, have tolerance for, and care about

those

> > who
> > > > were followers of other teachers.
> > > >
> > > > John, I think it concerns me the most that the speech is said
> to
> > > have
> > > > been made by an Arahant. Often if I am uncomfortable or
> puzzled
> > > > about anything in the Tipitaka, I put the concern aside

hoping

> > it
> > > > will be clearer in the future, consoling myself that the
> > Tipitaka
> > > > bears the hallmark of approval of the Arahants. Perhaps this

> > > > naivety ... I have a memory (can't turn up the post) of

someone

> > > > stating that the Mahavamsa was examined and included in the
> > > Tipitaka
> > > > at the Sixth Buddhist Council in Burma in the fifties?
> > > > ===============
> > > > Quote, with speech attributed to an Arahant:
> > > > "Only one and a half human beings have been slain here by

thee,

> O
> > > > lord of men. The one had come unto the (three) refuges, the
> > other
> > > had
> > > > taken unto himself the five precepts. Unbelievers and men of
> evil
> > > > life were the rest, not more to be esteemed than beasts. But

> > for
> > > > thee, thou wilt bring glory to the doctrine of the Buddha in
> > > manifold
> > > > ways; therefore cast away care from the heart, O ruler of men
> > > > (xxv.108-112)."
> > > > ================
> > > >