From: Norman Joseph [Jou] Smith
Message: 4505
Date: 2004-03-12
> --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "rjkjp1" <rjkjp1@...> wrote:This message, my reply to Robert, got lost in trasit, but now found and
>
> cut
> > > > As well as that it is not surprising to me, thinking theThe most damning evidence for the multiple life and rebirth theory would
> > > > physiological interpretaion of the three insight knowledges
> > > > [tevijjaa] is a later teaching, that these ideas are usually
> > found
> > > > in Nikaayan texts that most scholars take as later texts, i.e.
> > > > Anguttara and Diigha as opposed to Majjhima and Samyutta.
> > > > ==================
> > >
> > >
> >
> > > Anyway I have copies of the Majjhima and Samyutta and will see
> if
> > > there are any references to past/future lives.
> > > RobertK
> > =======
> > Dear jou,
>
> Hi Robert and all.
>
> Hope you are well and happy.
>
> > I had a look through the majjima and samyutta and found many
> > references to rebirth.
> > I trust these examples suffice:
> > Saccasamyutta (p1885 Bodhi)
> > "so too bhikkhus those beings are few who when they pass away as
> > human beings are reborn
> > as human beings. but numerous are those who,
> > when they pass away are reborn in hell.."
>
> M v 474 = M 56.102
>
> Evameva kho, bhikkhave, appakaa te sattaa ye manussaa cutaa
> manussesu paccaajaayanti; atha kho eteva bahutaraa sattaa ye
> manussaa cutaa niraye paccaajaayanti.
>
> This last word, in one dictionary I have gives both meanings of to
> be born AND to be RE-born.
>
> > Khandavagga (samyutta nikaya)p1026
> > here bhikkhus someone practises good conduct of body, speech and
> > mind....then with the break-up of the body he is reborn in the
> > company of devas who dwell in fragrant roots"
>
> S iii 251 = S 31.3
>
> Ayam. kho, bhikkhu, hetu, ayam. paccayo, yena midhekacco kaayassa
> bhedaa param. mara.naa muulagandhe adhivatthaanam. devaanam.
> sahabyatam. upapajjati.
>
> This last word, in one dictionary I have gives both meanings of to
> be born AND to be RE-born.
>
> You can choose which meaning you want to follow and only stick to
> that without testing the other, if you wish. I did that, but
> eventually thought that would not seem to be to follow the
> idea, 'the truth does not suffer from investigation'. Not testing a
> different option, especially after someone says the other is more
> immediately beneficial, would also not indicate a willingness to
> learn, which the Buddha said is necessary to progress.
>
> Of course the different meanings you choose will affect what you
> think the goal is.