Hello Bhikkhu Pesala, and thank-you ever so much for your kind reply, however
I have sat a retreat with one of the revered Bhikkhus you mentioned, and I
found no evidence to support a belief that he knows anything more about jhana
than what he has read in the Visuddhimagga. I have read the Visuddhimagga, and
who ever is responsible for writing it clearly knew nothing of jhana.

I am sorry that you believe I have "ignorance of Dhamma," that I am
"misrepresenting the Buddha," and that I have "serious error, and a falsehood." This
is unfortunately to your discredit my good friend. I only speak from 30 years
of daily meditation experience, from reading the Sutta pitaka and reflecting
upon it. I see however that you have not yet left us with a single reference
to bolster your rather flimsy argument that only depends on posturing and empty
words. Where in the Sutta Pitaka does it say one develops either insight or
absorption separately? I do not believe you can find it, because I have not
seen it.

Here is my support:

Dispelling Common Misconceptions regarding absorption (Jhana)

Concentration leads to absorption and insight, which leads to cessation.
There is no other way.

Maha-satipatthana Sutta, DN 22
"And what is right {absorption (sama-samadhi)}? There is the case where an
aspirant -- quite withdrawn from sensuality, withdrawn from unskillful (mental)
qualities -- enters & remains in the first absorption (jhana)... (through
fourth jhana).

Jhanasamyutta SN 9.53
"Bhikkhus, there are these five higher fetters. What five? Lust for form,
lust for the formless, conceit, restlessness, ignorance. These are the five
higher fetters. The four absorptions (jhanas) are to be developed for direct
knowledge of these five higher fetters, for the full understanding of them, for
their utter destruction, for their abandoning."

Samadhanga Sutta AN V. 28
"He permeates and pervades, suffuses and fills this very body with the
ecstasy (piiti) and joy (sukha) born from withdrawal. There is nothing of his entire
body unpervaded by ecstasy (piiti) and joy (sukha) born from withdrawal."

Jhanasamyutta SN 9.53
"Bhikkhus, just as the River Ganges slants, slopes and inclines toward the
East, so too a bhikkhu who develops and cultivates the four absorptions (jhanas)
slants, slopes, and inclines toward nibbana."

Jhanasamyutta, SN 34
"Therein, bhikkhus, the meditator who is skilled both in concentration
regarding absorption (jhana) and in attainment regarding absorption (jhana) is the
chief, the best the foremost, the highest, the most excellent of these four
kinds of meditators."

Kindest regards,

Jeff Brooks

In a message dated 3/9/04 1:35:11 AM, Pali@yahoogroups.com writes:

<< Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 08:58:51 -0000
From: "Bhikkhu Pesala" <pesala@...>
Subject: Re: Common Misconceptions of Jhana

Jeff, sorry about the Pali characters. I didn't realise that this forum
wasn't able to interpret Unicode, as they do display correctly in the
message box. I immediately deleted my message 4452, replaced ā with aa
etc., before reposting it as message 4456.

Your ignorance of Dhamma is truly appalling. Please do not continue along
this line of teaching. You must surely have misunderstood something very
fundamental somewhere.

Venerable Mahasi Sayadaw was the chief questioner at the Sixth Buddhist
Council and spent his entire teaching life propagating the method of dry
insight. He did not disparage the practice of jhana, and I do not either,
but please do not teach that there is no insight without jhana. It is true
to say that there is no insight without concentration, but jhana
concentration is not essential. Momentary concentration is sufficient.

Devadatta was fairly deep into jhana. He had to be to attain some minor
psychic powers. You also claim to be deep into jhana, but you are
misrepresenting the Buddha, which is a serious error, and a falsehood.

I will not reply to you any further, as this is a forum for learning Pali
and perhaps discussing the Pali texts, not for debating the pros and cons
of various meditation techniques. Please seek guidance from someone who is
more learned than me, like Bhante Gunaratna or Sayadaw U Silananda. These
learned Mahatheras are also knowledgeable about jhanas, which I am not, as
I only know about the method of dry insight.

Metta cittena

Bhikkhu Pesala >>