from another group with a few aditions and subtractions:

> hello Jou and all,

Hi [cut for protection of privacy]

Hope you are well and happy.

> Is there a way of sharing your understanding
> of that teaching that could help others understand what you
> are getting at?

Yes, but I request that only those who are intersted in seeing how
my transaltions have helped in my understanding of the 4 ruupa
jhaana and how that has helped my practice, join this new
thread "jou's translations of terms Ex: Analysis of the ruupa
jhaana".

I.e. I request that those with whom I have had discussions with on
the translations of the terms and we have [agreed to] disagreed,
refrain from putting their points across in this tread. Please start
your own, e.g. "Jeff's translations of terms Ex: Analysis of the
ruupa jhaana"

This would seem to be in accordance with the process of the Gradual
Path, as the Buddha taught M 70 : M i 479 [see also Ud 5.3 (PTS pg
49) , Ud 5.5 (PTS pg 54) ; M 56 : M i 379-80]:

Mendicants, I do not say that final knowledge is achieved all at
once. On the contrary, final knowledge is achieved by gradual
training, gradual practice and gradual progress. And how does there
come to be gradual traiing, gradual practice, gradual progress? Here
one who has faith [in someone], visits them, he pays respect to
them; when he pays repsect to them, he gives ear; one who gives ear,
hears the process [Dhamma]; having heard the process, he memorises
it, he examines the meaning of the teaching he has memorised; when
he examines their meaning, he gains a reflective acceptatnce of
those teachings; when he has gaind a reflective acceptance of those
teachings, zeal [piiti] springs up in him; when zeal has sprung up,
he applies his will; having appliked his will, he scrutinises;
having scrutinised, he strives; resolutetly srtiving he realises
with the body the ultimate truth and sees it by penetrating it with
wisdom.

Preparation for entering the jhaana:
Quite secluded from sensual pleasures [of the -first- five senses in
the Buddha's teaching], secluded from unwholesome processes
[dhammaa], I [the Buddha] entered upon and abided in the first
jhaana:

So it seems there is a calming down of unwholesome activities in the
prelude to the first jhaana. This signifies to me a transition from
practising immorality to suspending this and having a temporary
[shaky] morality [situation ethics]. This would be why good
friendship is the most important external factor and I match this
stage as having faith and going to visit a respected person to
inquire about the process [dhamma] of enlightenment.


The first jhana has 4 factors [according to most suttas]:
piiti (zest),
sukha (happiness),
vitakka (reason),
vicaara (analysis),

In listening to or reading teachings one develops interest/zest,
happiness and is inspired to reflect and investigate them, using
such faculties as reason and analysis, which would basically mean
study to develop a hypothesis on what the process [dhamma] of
enlightenment might likely be that one could test, or to put it
another way, questioning if what the respected on is teaching is
wholesome: would it harm myself and or others?


Second jhana has 3 [or 4] factors:
piiti (zest),
sukha (happiness),
samaadhi [concentration] though that could be thought of as
ekodibhaava/ekagataa [onepointedness]

So it seems there is a calming down of wholesome activities 4 to 3
factors in transition from jh1 to jh2. Samaadhi/ekodhibhaava
replaces the analitical mind. Having developed a hypothesis one
determines to test it in exprienece. One focusses on implementing.

Some texts also have paamujja [joy] and passadhi [tranquillity].


Third jhana has 6 [?] factors:
piiti (zest),
viraaga [non-sensuality],
kaaya-sukha [boily pleasure],
uppekkhaa [equanimity],
sati [remembrance],
sampajannyya [clear comprehension].

So it seems there is a new activity 3 to 6 factors [calm + insight
indicated by sati-sampajaana] in transition from jh2 to jh3. By
being enthused [zest] and focussed on cause and effect in testing
the hypothesis in the present [sampajannyya - clear comprehension]
one is not caught in
sensuality and control/forcing as one had in the past [reference:
sati - remembrance], but proper practice has a positive effect on
BOTH the mind and the body, therefore we have pleasure in both. Have
your cake and eat it. :-}


Fourth jhana has 3 factors:
uppekkhaa [equanimity],
sati [remembrance],
parisuddhi [complete purity]

So it seems there is a new calming down: 6 to 3 factors in
transition from jh3 to jh4. Knowing the process for oneself and how
one had not followed it in the past and the consquences of such
[sati - remembrance], but can follow it now, one has equanimity.
Follwing the process liberates one from uhwholesome mental states as
one lives it and compeltely when one is living it all the time.

Or if we follow the other texts the number of factors go 4, 5, 6, 3
to the respective successive jhaana.


How I relate to this generally:
I accept the idea that the Buddha adopted current ideas and
practices, but adapted them to fit with his widsom. The jhaana of
his day may have stopped at concentration and that could be why the
traditional noble eightfold path stops there, but i think a closer
analysis of his definition of the four ruupa jhaana shows that there
is much more beyond concentration [ekodhibhaava/ekagattaa].

I take Jhaana as "awareness" to explain why the Buddha spoke so much
on it in and so little on Sati [which was also important, but would
have had the meaning of remembrance or memory at the time]. Sati in
modern contexts is understood as "awareness/mindfulness" and as such
is rightly put in such a high place as the Buddha put it, but just
that I think he called awareness "jhaana".
Linguists know that words change meaning over time and often loose
their origninal meaning. It is called semantic change and shift and
it may happen over hundreds of years. I suggest this is the process
of change for sati and jhaana:

memory -> memory and awarenss -> awareness
awareness -> awarenss and concentration -> concentration

The Jhaana doctrine would have originally been a whole presentation
of the path [one of the 50+ that we find in the Paali canon] and one
of those teachings whose meaning got lost very
early on. Eventually it was identified with right concentration
{sammaa samaadhi} by the study monks who had little, or no proper
understanding of it. So wherever right concentration {sammaa
samaadhi} was spoken of as a factor in the path the jhaana doctrine
got inserted [with the intention of making things clear and maybe
honoring the jhaana teaching]. This happened in the time of oral
transmission, so such a change could be made easily to all memorised
texts. {Like a global search and replace using a computer program.}

I could not say the study monks had NO experience of jhaana because
I see the first jhaana as study. :-) There had been an earlier
simpler definition of right concentration as ANY concentration with
the previous path factors [i.e. faith and morality], which would
agree with the often heard/read saying that "morality leads to
concentration".

The understanding of the four ruupa jhaana seems to shed light on a
long standing question regarding how much concentration [samaa
samaadhi as defined as the jhaana] that a stream enterer has. I
would say one enters the stream in the first jhaana, the first level
of awareness which may happen when one is listening to [or reading]
an authentic discourse of the Buddha, as we hear happen in the
suttas.

In short I see the four ruupa jhaanas matching everyday experience
in this way:

jh1 - listening, reading, thinking, study, analysis
jh2 - testing in exprience
jh3 - expriencing the results
jh4 - resting from projects [e.g. practising mindfulness of
breathing in the sitting posture]

Hope this helps.
Peace and good health.
Jou Smith