Sadhu! Sukho sanghassa samaggi!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dimitry A. Ivakhnenko (äÍÉÔÒÉÊ áÌÅËÓÅÅ×ÉÞ é×ÁÈÎÅÎËÏ)"
<koleso@...>
To: "Ong Teng Kee" <Pali@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 1:55 AM
Subject: Re[2]: [Pali] Re: Necessity of jhanas: panna-vimutto and
sukkhavipassako


> Ong Teng Kee,
>
> OTK> You said kitagiri sutta com said sukkavipasaka are without
> OTK> jhana.
>
> I said sukkhavipassakaa are with jhana.
>
> OTK> Please learn pali correctly-this com mentioned 5 arahant
> OTK> ,it means 4 arahant with each one type of jhana plus the fifth
> OTK> one without jhana.
>
> Kitagiri sutta commentary says:
>
> Pa~n~naavimuttoti pa~n~naaya vimutto. So sukkhavipassako, catuuhi
> jhaanehi vu.t.thaaya arahatta.m pattaa cattaaro caati imesa.m vasena
> pa~ncavidhova hoti. Paa.li panettha a.t.thavimokkhapa.tikkhepavaseneva
> aagataa. Yathaaha- "na heva kho a.t.tha vimokkhe kaayena phusitvaa
> viharati, pa~n~naaya cassa disvaa aasavaa parikkhii.naa honti. Aya.m
> vuccati puggalo pa~n~naavimutto"ti.
>
> Thank you for correction, it seems you are right.
>
> OTK> The theory came from putta sutta but not buddhaghosa.
>
> Putta sutta (AN 2.87) says:
>
> "Katha~nca, bhikkhave, puggalo sama.napu.n.dariiko hoti? Idha,
> bhikkhave, bhikkhu aasavaana.m khayaa anaasava.m cetovimutti.m
> pa~n~naavimutti.m di.t.theva dhamme saya.m abhi~n~naa sacchikatvaa
> upasampajja viharati, no ca kho a.t.tha vimokkhe kaayena phusitvaa
> viharati. Eva.m kho, bhikkhave, puggalo sama.napu.n.dariiko hoti.
>
> Bhikkhus, who is the bloomed recluse?
> Here, bhikkhus, the bhikkhu has destroyed desires, released the mind
> from desires and released through wisdom, here and now having realized
> abides. He has not experienced the eight releases with the body.
> Bhikkhus, this is the bloomed recluse
>
>
http://metta.lk/tipitaka/2Sutta-Pitaka/4Anguttara-Nikaya/Anguttara2/4-catukk
anipata/009-macalavaggo-e.htm
>
> Surely one released through wisdom has not reached all eight
> emancipations, but only few of them.
>
> So the theory of sukkhavipassaka came from Ven. Buddhaghosa.
>
> OTK> Again buddhaghosa and dhammapala recorded down that it is not
recommeded for
> OTK> sukhavipasa because it is too hard.
>
> Going without jhana is indeed very tiresome.
>
> Mettaya, Dimitry
>
>
>
>
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