Dimitry,
You said kitagiri sutta com said sukkavipasaka are without jhana.Please learn pali correctly-this com mentioned 5 arahant ,it means 4 arahant with each one type of jhana plus the fifth one without jhana.
The theory came from putta sutta but not buddhaghosa.
VM said sukkhavipasaka(also call sudhavipassanayanika) is with first jhana because they are with upacara jhana.But Vipasanayanika means those in satipatthana sutta com that insight follow by jhana -khanika follow by any kind of jhana.they have jhana but not emerge from it.
Again buddhaghosa and dhammapala recorded down that it is not recommeded for sukhavipasa because it is too hard.See anenjasapaya sutta in MN.





"Dimitry A. Ivakhnenko (������� ���������� ���������)" <koleso@...> wrote:
.

visuddhimagga 666-667 (XXI, 112) tells:

"To deal with these [three theories] in order: According to the
governance by insight, the path arisen in a bare-insight (dry-insight)
worker, and the path arisen in one who possesses a jhana attainment
but who has not made the jhana the basis for insight, and the path
made to arise by comprehending unrelated formations after using the
first jhana as the basis for insight, are paths of the first jhana
only."

Here Ven. Buddhaghosa clearly says that all these three paths are of
the first jhana.

r> Textual evidence that there
r> can be arahats lacking mundane jhana is provided by the Susima Sutta
r> (S.ii, 199-23) together with is commentaries. When the monks in the
r> sutta are asked how they can be arahats without possessing
r> supernormal powers of the immaterial attainments, they reply: "We are
r> liberated by wisdom" (pannavimutta kho mayam). The commentary glosses
r> this reply thus: "We are contemplatives, dry-insight meditators,
r> liberated by wisdom alone" (Mayam nijjhanaka sukkhavipassaka
r> pannamatten'eva vimutta ti, SA.ii,117). The commentary also states
r> that the Buddha gave his long disquisition on insight in the
r> sutta "to show the arising of knowledge even without concentration"
r> (vina pi samadhimevam nanuppattidassanattham, SA.ii,117). The
r> subcommentary establishes the point by explaining "even without
r> concentration" to mean "even without concentration previously
r> accomplished reaching the mark of serenity" (samathalakkhanappattam
r> purimasiddhamvina pi samadhin ti), adding that this is said in
r> reference to one who makes insight his vehicle (ST.ii,125). "

This argument is quite circumferential and inconclusive.

There's quite straightforward commentary to Kitagiri sutta describing
sukkhavipassaka as one who attained rupa jhanas:

Pa~n~naavimuttoti pa~n~naaya vimutto. So sukkhavipassako, catuuhi
jhaanehi vu.t.thaaya arahatta.m pattaa cattaaro caati imesa.m vasena
pa~ncavidhova hoti. Paa.li panettha a.t.thavimokkhapa.tikkhepavaseneva
aagataa. Yathaaha- "na heva kho a.t.tha vimokkhe kaayena phusitvaa
viharati, pa~n~naaya cassa disvaa aasavaa parikkhii.naa honti. Aya.m
vuccati puggalo pa~n~naavimutto"ti.

Dimitry




- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
[Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
[Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
Paaliga.na - a community for Pali students
Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or web only.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




---------------------------------
Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]