Dear Frank,
The theory of arahant without any jhana came from putta sutta in AN 4 th nipata as I have said many times.The theory is not from com and sub com just like those three lives theory of paticcasamupada came from mahanidana sutta.






Frank Kuan <fcckuan@...> wrote:
To fully realize anatta, beyond mundane right view,
without the subtlest feeling of "I am", the arahants
always say something to the effect that they have
direct knowledge and perception of the
arising/cessation of 5 aggregates, and through this
direct knowledge, then there can be complete
nonclinging and removal of craving and ignorance.

How can this direct perception and knowledge be
possible without single pointed concentration, i.e.
mastery of jhanas? I don't see how that is possible.
If the subcommentary says mastery of jhanas is not
necessary, I don't believe it. If the commentary says
it's not necessary, I don't believe it. I'm even
doubtful of the interpretation that first jhana is all
that is required. If that were so, there should be
numerous suttas that demonstrate that. Where is a
sutta that shows that? I can't think of a single one.
The only difference I can recollect is that some
arahants have full arsenal and full mastery of
supernormal powers, many only have proficiency of
divine eye/ear, and some have no mastery of the
supernormal powers, but most likely I believe they
have at a fair amount of spurious experience with
supernormal powers, just not proficiency or ability to
use the power at will.

As far as I'm concerned, the distinction between the
two types of arahants the Buddha talks about in the
pali canon refers only to mastery or proficiency of
the supernormal powers. The overwhelming impression of
the canon is that all arahants have proficiency of all
4 jhanas and all four immaterial jhanas.

-fk


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