Dear Lars
op 13-03-2003 15:01 schreef Lars op khandha5@...:

> But what rendering would follow from those texts? Inflow or Outflow?
> The descriptions of the aasavas flowing into the faculties is quite
> good, but I shall discuss that on the other list.

Nina: I just followed the tr of the Atthasalini 48: they flow or arise from
the senses and the mind.
The aa is explained here as: keeping within, like madira wines, a long
fermentation. Savanti: they flow.
Dhammasanga.ni: a long footnote: flowing in, upon, over. They flow onto,
circulate about the senses and the mind.
Now, these are similes to explain realities. It does not matter whether we
see it as in- or outflow. An image is an image, nothing more or less than
that. What is important: to see that there are aasavas now, in daily life.
They are so persistent, keep on trickling, are like intoxicants. They are
dangerous.
The same akusala dhammas are also classified as oghas, floods (keep us
submerged in the cycle), and yoghas, yokes. This in order to show us
different aspects. but they are very real.
Buddhist Dictionary, Ven. Nyanatiloka: aasava: lit. influxes.
The Commentary to the Abhidhammattha Sangaha, the Abhidhammattha Vibhaavinii
(A recent Tr. as Summary of the Topics of Abhidhamma and Exposition of the
Topics of Abhidhamma, PTS) gives: "They are the taints (aasavas) in the
sense of standing [fermenting] (paarivaasiya) for so long that the beginning
cannot be known, or because, like pus flowing from a wound, they flow
(visandana) from the eye, etc. towards the objects (of consciousness).
Alternatively, they are taints in that they flow (savati)-they ocur- up to
(aa) the summit of existence as far as existence is concerned, and up to the
point of change-of-lineage (gotrabhuu) as far as dhamma is concerned. Here
the prefix aa has the sense of limit, and a limit is twofold as exclusive
and inclusive."
Here we have to remember that they occur up to the highest plane of
existence. And also that they are eradicated with enlightenment (occurring
after gotrabhuu), but only all of them are eradicated at the stage of
arahatship.
Again, I do not fall over different translations. We also have to remember
that the aim of the commentators was not linguistics or etymology, but they
used word associations in order to explain about dhammas, realities.
Nina.