Konu: Re: [bcn_2003] Fw: [Nostratica] Response to Polat
Kaya's...
Re: Mark Hubey's response dated 24 Temmuz 2003: Re:
[SPAM:61%] [Nostratica] Response to Polat Kaya's...
1. Mark Hubey
said:
"Mr. Turhan Tisinli simply asked you to show why this
anagramatizing could not go in the other direction."
Polat
Kaya: And I explained that Turkish "ACELE EDER" (ECELE EDER) could not
possibly have been anagrammatized from English "ACCELERATE" or even Latin
"ACELERO" because Turkish is a much more ancient language than Latin, with
roots going back to at least the Sumerian and Masarian times. I gave a
complete answer to your question. So what is your point in the above
comment? I see it purely as a distraction from the main topic - which
is, that I am claiming that many English, Latin, Greek and other IE words
have been manufactured by anagrammatizing Turkish words and/or phrases.
Example, so-called English word OX is unquestionably and undeniably sourced
from Turkish OKUZ and the bogus letter X is used to hide its Turkish
source.
2. Mark Hubey said:
"It is unlikely that "acele' is
Turkic. It violates the harmony laws and likely shows up only in Turkish,
Azeri, and those very closely connected with Arabic."
Polat
Kaya: The Turkish form of ACELE, as I pointed out in my previous
response, is ECELE which does meet the Turkish "vowel harmony rule". This
form is used in eastern Anatolia and Azerbaycan. It is very likely that
"ECELE" is Turkic and it is very likely that "Arabic" got it from Turkic as
many Turkish words and phrases have been anagrammatized into Arabic and then
portrayed as Arabic words. In this forum, I have given many
samples of Arabic words that have been anagrammatized from
Turkish.
3. Mark Hubey said:
"OK. This one you got right e.g.
Gilgamesh was originally Bilgamesh and as we know Bilge is Turkic from the
root bil (to know). "
Polat Kaya: I am glad that you recognized the
fact that BILGAMESH was Turkish which of course it is. It is also a
fact that BILGAMESH was also Sumerian. Hence it is both Sumerian and
Turkish. Thus when BILGAMESH Epic was being composed some 7000+ years ago,
the Turkish language was there. Additionally, the name BILGAMESH is
made up of three Turkish components: Turkish word "BIL"(to know) + infix
"-GA-" + suffix "-MESH/-MISH" indicating that Turkish grammar was
already developed and in use in those Sumerian times. By the way,
if you were aware that GILGAMESH was originally BILGAMESH and that
BILGAMESH is pure TURKISH, why didn't you or some other linguist come out
and say so? The implication of this knowledge is that Turkish is at
least as old as Sumerian. Is this point not important enough for
linguistics?
Additionally I have already pointed out that even the name
GILGAMESH is an anagrm of Turkish phrase "AGILGAMESH" meaning again the same
as "BILGAMESH". This shows that those who changed BILGAMESH to
GILGAMESH already knew the technique of "anagrammatizing" and were already
using it in order to obliterate Turkish and Sumerian.
Of course the
sameness of Sumerian "DINGIR" and Turkish"TENGIR"; Sumerian "ANU" and Turkish
"HAN-O" and its anagrammatized form "NOAH" must not be forgotten either.
4. Mark Hubey said:
"I think prototurkic and or its relatives
were spoken in Eastern Europe and Anatolia etc because I think the
prototurkic homeland was either in southeastern Anatolia or in the steppes
between the Urals and the Turkmen steppes. But the rest don't make
sense."
Polat Kaya: On many occasions, I have said over
and over that the ancient world was a Turkish speaking world in Asia, Europe
and at least in North Africa. Similarly their Sky God religion was
the dominant world religion. Thus the Anatolians were Turkic
speaking peoples. The Anatolian language was Turkic before it was
altered by the Greeks after Alexander the Great conquered Anatolia, the
Middle East and ancient Masar. The term "proto-Turkic" is a
misnomer. "Proto"(as in PROTOTYPE or PROTO LANGUAGE), from Greek
PROTOS, denoting first in time or first in model, is an anagram of
Turkish "BIR-ATA" meaning "one father" or "the first father" whether
linguists admit it or not. I know it is very difficult to admit.
Additionally, the Eastern Europe that you refer to has the
name "BALKAN" and "THRACIA". BALKAN is a Turkish word, and THRACIA is
an anagram of Turkish "TURUK OYU" (TÜRK ÖYÜ) meaning "The house/land
of Turks". These names clearly tell you that so-called Eastern
Europe was already inhabited by Turks for thousands of years.
If the
prototurkic homeland was southeastern Anatolia, as you think, that defines
the so-called area "Mesopotamia" where many TUR/TURK peoples settled (and
passed by in their migrations) in ancient times in spite of denials. However,
it is the Altays and the rest of Central Asia that was their homelands. Over
thousands of years they spread out of that motherland in all directions
(e.g., other parts of Asia, Europe, Anatolia, Middle East, Northern Africa).
All Turanian migrations towards Arabistan peninsula and North Africa, whether
by south of Caspian Sea (i.e., through Iran) or North of Caspian
Sea (i.e., through Caucasus mountains and through Eastern Anatolia)
meet at this point, that is, Eastern Anatolia and Mesopotamia.
Saying
"but the rest don't make sense" is evasive and does not make sense
itself. Read it again. Surely when the concept is not known by the
reader and the knowledge is lacking, things do not make sense. For example,
you felt comfortable in recognizing "BILGAMESH because you knew it.
5. Regarding the ancient Masarians when I called them
TUR/TURK peoples, Mark Hubey said:
"These people would be the Hyksos.
And they did have a city called Abaris (Avaris) and they could be connected
with the Turkic Apars. But the movement could have been from the Mideast to
the steppes. There is much that is unknown."
Polat Kaya: No
they were not the Hyksos. What I am saying is quite different. The
HYKSOS were much later incoming Turkish groups and were not the original Tur
Masarians who established the longest living Tur/Turk state in human history,
that is, the MASAR/MISIR (so-called "EGYPT"). HYKSOS constituted only a
short period of that very long-lived TUR MASAR Empire (the XIV to XVII
dynasties inclusive i.e., 1786 to 1567 B.C.. The original ancient Masarians
were the ones that came from Central Asia. Most likely they were the
SAKA group (about 3300 B.C.) which is also obvious from the name SKA (SAKA)
of the second king of the ancient MISIR/MASAR. SAKA Turks are also
known to be the ancient Turkish people and ancestors of Turks. The name
is still preserved in the name of SAKA (Yakut) Turks in Asia.
Even the name "SCAMANDER" of TROY in Homer's Iliad is nothing but
the Turkish name "SAKAMAN DERE" meaning "The Brook of Sakaman". It
is presently known as "Menderes Çayi". The name "Sakaman" is very
similar to the name "Türkmen" (Turkoman). Of course the name TROY is
nothing but the Turkish "TUR-ÖY" meaning the "House of TUR".
You are right in connecting the name of Hyksos with the name
of Turkish "APARS/AVARS" peoples, because of the fact that they built
a city by the name "AVARIS" in lower Egypt as you also pointed out. Their
remnants AVARS went all the way to Eastern and Central Europe and established
the Turkish AVAR Empire. The name "BAVARIA" in Germany is named after
them.
For everyone's information, Hyksos also built the city of
"Jerusalem" ("Kudus", coming from Turkish KUT + US meaning "Sacred Wisdom"
and referring to the ancient Turanian Sky-God - which is probably why
the place is regarded as such a holy site [Encyclopaedia Brittanica
(EB) 1963, Vol., 12, p. 9 under "Hyksos"]. The name Hyksos has many
Turkish meanings embedded in it. Embedding the name or attributes of
Sky God in a title was the Turanian tradition in ancient times. HYKSOS
were OGUZ people as their name indicates ("OGUZUS" meaning "we are the
OGUZ people), The Greek letter "H" is actually Greek "eta" (pronounced s I)
and Y is really a U, thus forming the name "IUKSOS", which when
rearranged as "OKUSIS" becomes the Turkish phrase "OKUSIS" (OGUZUS).
The HYKSOS are also known as the "Shepherd Kings".
6. Mark Hubey
said:
"No evidence of writing at that time can be found in Central
Asia unless the Soviets decided to eradicate them."
Polat
Kaya: Recently Russians disclosed evidences of ancient writing (dated
from about 4000 B.C. if I am not mistaken) found in Turkmenistan. I believe
it was also printed in this group. Evidently, Soviets kept it very secret for
a long time.
7. Regarding "proto" being an anagram of Turkish
"Bir Ata", Mark Hubey said:
"It is possible that "proto" can be
connected with words like "primary", prima, prime, parma, etc and may be
connected and thus could be conneced with "bir" (one). "
Polat
Kaya: As I stated many times, the term "proto" is an anagram of Turkish
"Bir-Ata". Many words IN ENGLISH starting with "pr", "pre" and "pro" are
related to the Turkish word "BIR" (PIR). BIR is the name of number 1 in
the Turkish numbering system. Similarly names like "primary", prima, prime,
parma, etc. are all derivatives of Turkish "BIR" meaning "ONE" or "first in
line". They are all related to the name of the ancient Turanian creator
Sky-Father-God "BIR O" meaning "He is the only ONE". The Etruscan numeral
name for "1" is also "PR" from Turkish "PIR/BIR". The Latin name for ordinal
numeral 1 is PRIMUS which is again from Turkish word for ordinal number 1
"BIRIMSI" (BIRIMCI, BIRINCI). The Egyptian Kings (so-called
PHARAOHS) deified themselves with the title of "PERU" (BIR-O).
Additionally their palace was called "PIR-OY" (BIR-OY) meaning "the first
house" which is pure Turkish. A pharaoh's palace is always the "First
House" like the "Top Kapi" of the Ottomans and the "White House" of the
USA. All these indicate how Turkic the ancient Masarians were.
The
term "proto" as used in English means "first in time", "first in rank".
Similarly "BIR-ATA", being the name of "Sky-God", is "first in time" and
"first in rank". The creator BIR-ATA, having created "man" in his own
image, as the ancient people regarded so, would be the first model of man -
in other words "the first man" or "the first father". When TUR Masarians,
so-called ancient "Egyptians," called their creator sky-god by the name
"AMEN" they named it in Turkish meaning "O-MEN" ("He is Me" and also "I am
Him"). When we replace the A in AMEN with its numerical value of 1, we get
Turkish "BIR MEN" which again describes the Sky God. For the Pharoah,
"BIR MEN" was expressing his highness in rank in Turkish - which was their
language.
Best wishes to all,
Polat Kaya
July 27,
2003
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