Good place to start;

www.ee.cityu.edu.hk/~wsyw/publications/ lg_diversity.pdf

www.ee.cityu.edu.hk/~wsyw/publications/ lang_evo_mhuman.pdf

Geraldine Reinhardt wrote:
OK.  So what words are your 32?  Please list them.
 
Gerry
----- Original Message -----
From: H.M. Hubey
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 7:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Nostratica] Re: replacement rates

yes, that is a good number.

Geraldine Reinhardt wrote:
So what will you do?  32?  Why not.
 
Gerry
----- Original Message -----
From: H.M. Hubey
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 7:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Nostratica] Re: replacement rates

Yes, 32 is a power of 2. 35 is also the number of the Yakontov list.

Gerry Reinhart-Waller wrote:
Sounds good.  32 is also a power of two.  Can you do?
 
Gerry
----- Original Message -----
From: H.M. Hubey
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 6:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Nostratica] Re: replacement rates

Swadesh has 100 and 200. I want to start with 32.

Geraldine Reinhardt wrote:
So I thought.  What is the Swadesh list.... 100 terms?  Then how many are you proposing for your list?
 
Gerry
----- Original Message -----
From: H.M. Hubey
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 11:27 AM
Subject: Re: [Nostratica] Re: replacement rates

Of course, every list is finite. It has to be.

Geraldine Reinhardt wrote:
Simply that if one creates a replacement Swadesh list, one needs to establish a definite number of terms that the list contains.  If one does not, then the list becomes of infinite proportions (which could also be correct in theory) and likely encompass all known words as well as all "yet to be" created terms.
 
Gerry
----- Original Message -----
From: H.M. Hubey
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 8:32 AM
Subject: Re: [Nostratica] Re: replacement rates

I have no idea what you are talking about. Please explain.

Gerry wrote:
Without a beginning and end, your metrics turn into a semantic debate.
 
Gerry
----- Original Message -----
From: H.M. Hubey
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 7:01 AM
Subject: Re: [Nostratica] Re: replacement rates

Our problem is not that difficult.

tgpedersen wrote:
--- In Nostratica@yahoogroups.com, "H.M. Hubey" <hubeyh@...> wrote:
> I am not sure I understand. I am only discussing creating a
semantics
> metric for a short
> list of words. I only suggest that the short list size be a power
of 2
> so that we can use
> binary/boolean concepts.  Any list has to be  finite in order to be
> useful. We cannot
> handle infinity.
>
> Geraldine Reinhardt wrote:
>
> > Sorry.  I'm not clear as to how you will deliniate your "Hubey"
list. 
> > If there is no final number,  then the list should exist
> > for infinity?  Right?
> > 
> > Gerry
> >
> >     ----- Original Message -----
> >     From: H.M. Hubey <mailto:hubeyh@...>
> >     To: Nostratica@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:Nostratica@yahoogroups.com>
> >     Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 4:48 PM
> >     Subject: Re: [Nostratica] Re: replacement rates
> >
> >     No final number. This will work for something like the Swadesh
> >     list. There are other
> >     ways to get semantic distances from dictionaries. I would be
> >     interesting to compare
> >     them after they have been worked out.
> >
> >     Geraldine Reinhardt wrote:
> >
> >>     Interesting.  Does that leave the final number at infinity
(in
> >>     the power of 2)?
> >>     
> >>     Gerry
> >>
> >>         ----- Original Message -----
> >>         From: H.M. Hubey <mailto:hubeyh@...>
> >>         To: Nostratica@yahoogroups.com
> >>         <mailto:Nostratica@yahoogroups.com>
> >>         Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 9:51 AM
> >>         Subject: Re: [Nostratica] Re: replacement rates
> >>
> >>         IT would have to be in powers of 2. I got started on 32
> >>         already. We can double it
> >>         to 64, then  128. We'd have to add 28 more to Swadesh
100.
> >>         Then we can double to
> >>         256, and we only need 28 more for that.
> >>
> >>         Gerry wrote:
> >>
> >>>         Most interesting.  Yet based on Boolean ideas, how many
> >>>         words would be contained in renovating the Swadesh list?
> >>>         
> >>>         Gerry
> >>>
> >>>             ----- Original Message -----
> >>>             From: H.M. Hubey <mailto:hubeyh@...>
> >>>             To: Nostratica@yahoogroups.com
> >>>             <mailto:Nostratica@yahoogroups.com>
> >>>             Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 6:01 AM
> >>>             Subject: Re: [Nostratica] Re: replacement rates
> >>>
> >>>             There is a shorter way. We can start with a subset
of
> >>>             the Swadesh list. Yakhontov
> >>>             already has a shorter version which has 35 words. A
> >>>             simple metric should probably
> >>>             be based on Boolean ideas. 32 is a good number
since it
> >>>             is a power of 2. I already
> >>>             got started but haven't had time to pay attention
to it.
> >>>             If anyone is interested, we can
> >>>             collaborate.
> >>>
> >>>             tgpedersen wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>             --- In Nostratica@yahoogroups.com, "H.M. Hubey"
> >>>>             <hubeyh@...> wrote:
> >>>>             >
> >>>>             >
> >>>>             >
> >>>>             >
> >>>>             > I think what linguistics needs is a "semantic
> >>>>             metric". I know how
> >>>>             to
> >>>>             > derive at least two different
> >>>>             > ones from data but need time and money :-) I
think
> >>>>             all linguists
> >>>>             should
> >>>>             > appreciate the need for
> >>>>             > semantic metrics. It does not matter how many.
That
> >>>>             could always be
> >>>>             > worked out, fixed,
> >>>>             > repaired, improved etc. The trick is to get
going.
> >>>>             >
> >>>>             That would require us to know some canonical
> >>>>             development of a
> >>>>             canonical set of concepts. That is a tall order.
> >>>>
> >>>>             Torsten


If you are serious about your semantics metrics, I recommend you read
some of Doug Lenat's articles on his program "Eurisko", a program
that built a conceptual world from axioms of set theory until it ran
into computational difficulties constructing prime number theory. It
will give you a perspective on the problems at hand. They can be
found in the journal "Artifical Intelligence" some time in the early
eighties.

Torsten



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-- 
M. Hubey
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can be created by unskilled labor. Arthur C. Clarke

/\/\/\/\//\/\/\/\/\/\/ http://www.csam.montclair.edu/~hubey



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The only difference between humans and machines is that humans
can be created by unskilled labor. Arthur C. Clarke

/\/\/\/\//\/\/\/\/\/\/ http://www.csam.montclair.edu/~hubey


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...
M. Hubey
...
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http://www.csam.montclair.edu/~hubey


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-- 
M. Hubey
-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o
The only difference between humans and machines is that humans
can be created by unskilled labor. Arthur C. Clarke

/\/\/\/\//\/\/\/\/\/\/ http://www.csam.montclair.edu/~hubey


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-- 
M. Hubey
-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o
The only difference between humans and machines is that humans
can be created by unskilled labor. Arthur C. Clarke

/\/\/\/\//\/\/\/\/\/\/ http://www.csam.montclair.edu/~hubey


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-- 
M. Hubey
-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o
The only difference between humans and machines is that humans
can be created by unskilled labor. Arthur C. Clarke

/\/\/\/\//\/\/\/\/\/\/ http://www.csam.montclair.edu/~hubey


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-- 
M. Hubey
-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o
The only difference between humans and machines is that humans
can be created by unskilled labor. Arthur C. Clarke

/\/\/\/\//\/\/\/\/\/\/ http://www.csam.montclair.edu/~hubey