us and them

>Mark Defillo:
> >I was not suggesting that it is correct, only presenting a viewpoint that
> >exists among a sizable part of India's academia. >Actually, I think that
> >their viewpoint results from seeing the result considerable
>cross-borrowing
> >between the language groups,
> >and the long history as essentially one culture.

Glen Gordon:

>Alright, thanks for the clarification. I guess that means you
>are my friend then :)

MD:
Of course I am your friend! Even though I have no idea who are other than a
Canadian linguist! :)

> >Yet, India has a millennia-old unbroken tradition of scholarship that we
>of
> >the western part of the IndoEuropean world lack, [...] only recently
> >achieved any semblance of freedom of thought, >which is again suppressed
> >under "political correctness". In India, on the other hand, there has
>been
> >[...] a plethora of
> >philosophies and traditions, or in other words, a society with >freedom
>of
> >thought allowing for extreme differences of opinion.
>
>I can't say anything about Europe since I am not European,
>although I am Canadian which makes me one third American and
>two-thirds European by default :P Certainly in North America,
>there can be found very divergeant views, some of which are not
>bound by political correctness because they are flat out
>racist. Of course, political correctness can be a form of self-censorship
>for ideas that may not be racist but that
>contradict new-age romantic notions (in themselves racist).
>For instance, the idea that Mayans may not have been
>peace-loving, tree-hugging natives as once thought has had great
>potential for seething contraversy.

MD: Very true comments about PCness. Non-Native North America is part of the
so-called "Western" culture that originates in Europe. Former colonies of
Europe are not non-European... sure, differences have grown, but the origin
and the essence are the same.

> >To me, that history counts for something, and the academia of India
> >deserves a better hearing than it gets from "western" academia,
>
>Very true. However, at least in my case, I'm sure that a lot of
>the Indian materials are simply not there in libraries in my
>(small and contemptable) prairie town and purchasing materials
>on the internet is something that I so far am unable to do with
>my non-bourgeoisie budget. So, in my personal case, I'm not
>ignorant of Indian materials because I think that Indians
>somehow have less to offer in terms of ideas and information.
>Rather, I just may not have access to them. Perhaps this is also
>the case for many others. (Or perhaps that just makes me a
>hillbilly :)

Yes, I think it is the case for most... and THAT is the problem I am
pointing to. In effect, the academia of India is collectively ignored by
"Western" academia; it is not the fault of individuals who end up ignorant
as a result. By "ignorant" I do not mean actively or obnoxiously so, just
unaware. The word has more distinctly negative connotations than it really
deserves, since it is so often used as an insult. I never it mean it that
way when I use it, FYI. I am trying to fix the problem by mentioning that
there IS this body of work that needs to be examined by the wider world
community so that its ideas can be either (as appropriate in each case)
rejected or incorporated into the body of existing knowledge in places where
it is not now known.

> >though its freedom means that there may be many more ideas and >theories
> >available to be considered and either accepted or rejected, and that
>there
> >is less of a single "mainstream" at all,
> >unless you will give that name to the particularly western-influenced
> >factions.
>
>Well, perhaps I do use the word "mainstream" a little too often but
>for many ideas there is a larger consensus by specialists in a
>particular field (excluding the ones that promote irrational,
>self-contradicting viewpoints which can number many, that is).
>For instance, there is a larger, educated consensus that is certain
>that Hungarian is a Uralic language, even though some on the net
>will diverge and relate it to everything under the sun using
>outright hideous methodology.
>
>I think that consensus views should be the starting point of one's
>research before stepping out into uncharted territory and if one
>does step out into such territory, one had better have good
>evidence to dismiss the more popular view.

This would be reasonable, except that today's consensi are often built on
earlier work that was extremely biased, or even self-interested. And
scholars DO have self-interest in not seeing their theories overturned or
disproven. For one thing, it can negatively affect funding. Too, a consensus
does not necessarily take into account all of the territory that has been
charted. Often something as simple as language barriers can prevent the full
body of evidence from being taken into account.

>I go on a self-important rant:
> >>We should always be perceptive of the potential biases of all
> >>linguists,
> >>her/his theories, as well as of ourselves, weighing >>everything based
>on
> >>facts and not on impressions, political >>correctness, or personal
> >>beliefs.
>
>Mark agrees with my silliness:
> >The trouble is, this is not done enough.
>
>Yes, that's why I want to get rich and make a billion dollars
>so that I can go out into space... and STAY there. Quite frankly,
>humans frighten me :)

No, no, stay here. It is not "humans" that is the problem, it is those
members of "homo sapiens" who do not live up to the sapiens potential. It is
the job of scholars (and all sapient ones) to help them do that. At least
according to our (yours and mine, and at least some other people on this
list, I don't know if all are...) ancestral IndoEuropean culture. :) I, for
one, say we should live up to our heritage... let the intelligent and
academics do our best in this regard.

Glen, yes, you would be a good friend, along with all others who will not
let their searches and researches be bound irrationally. (To the best of our
imperfect ability, that is.)

~Mark DeFillo


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