<note pronunciation and see
<my next post, where I'll make some comments that some readers might
<be shocked by. 
Or as they say - watch this space - Konrad this is really absorbing stuff,
can't wait - you gave certainly a "way with words"
Kveðja
Patricia
 
 
-------Original Message-------
 
From: akoddsson
Date: 09/10/2006 15:11:45
Subject: [norse_course] Re: MIce. Pronunciation and Sygnska (Sognamálit)
 

Sæll Llama!

> Do you think the mention in Skáldskaparmál of a 'ristubragð' "a
sign for cutting or carving" (Faulkes) could be revelant here? It's
said to be 'tindótt með þrim hornum' "spiky/pointy with three
corners" (presumably 'hornum' = "corners" here, if it's the stone
heart of the giant, although the same word also means "horn"). Is
the term 'valknútr' a modern invention?

I suspect so. ristubragð is, I think, relevant, as the ancient Norse
would have cut (rísta) symbols in objects, as memorial stones, wood,
etc. There would be, of course, many different ristubrögð. Question
is, what where they called?

> > I have done some research on Modern Icelandic pronunciation and
its relationship to the mainland, which I will mention something
about in a separate post.

> I look forward to reading that!

Well, here you get some of it. I'm not really any good at this kind
of research, and frankly, it's far from my specialty, but I have
been looking into the roots of MIce pronunciation after meeting a
man from Årdal, Sogn (West Norway): Here is a link which I found to
vikjamaal, a sub-dialect in Sogn (I couldn't find one on the whole
region, but it is representative) :

http://vikjavev. no/vikjamaal/ grammatikk. php

This story is funny, so I'll relate it. Now, I work in Trondheim
(Þrándheimr), where the inhabitant speak Trønsk/Trøndersk, an east
norse dialect, but differing radically from Danish, that has many
sub-dialects. As is well known, Danish has been Norway's official
language for hundreds of years (Dano-Norwegian, called Bokmål),
except that an alternative Landsmål exists, which is a written
language based on the most conservative features of all Norwegian
dialects surviving until the time of independence from Denmark. In
practice, Norway has more dialects than the rest of Scandinavia
combined, and the differences are far greater, which, ironically,
means that Norwegians, although no more interested in language than
others, test second only to Faroe-Islanders in Scandinavian tests on
language-understand ing. Tests (and experience) keep showing the
Swedes and Danes have a hard time understanding each other (or do
not wish to), while both understand Norwegians (and Norwegians them,
in general). Norwegians, like Faroe-Islanders, are a minority over
against Swedes and Danes, which probably also helps to make them
more open about learning these languages. In fact, Danes and Swedes
in Þrándheimr just speak Danish or Swedish (no problem at all). Now,
as the story goes, I heard a man talking to a friend at a cafe after
work. His pronunciation was so Icelandic, and his dialect utterly
different from the native one, that he must have been an Icelander
living in some other part of Norway (there are many Icelanders in
Norway, so this is typical enough). After his friend left, I spoke
to him in Icelandic, and he understood me perfectly well. I have an
Icelandic employer (one of 3 employers), who looks identical to this
man, but whom is much older and has a grown son in Norway (but whom
I have never met). So, I asked him if he was this man's son, trying
to establish a personal connection, and he said 'no, never heard of
him before'. Hmmm, thought I, as he looked identical... what to say
next...'uh, what are you doing in Norway? (relatives, girlfriend,
work, school, etc. - this time in Norwegian), I asked. No answer,
but a cold look. Then he said something like 'I'm not Icelandic,
sorry, I've heard it a thousand times, tired of it, frankly. I'm
more Norwegian than you Trønder-folk and proud of it. Goodbye.' He
just walked off. 'What the hell', I thought, 'a rude creep'. Now, to
make a long story short, I later met other folk talking like him,
who were, thankfully, more friendly than he. I found out that these
folk are from Sogn, a fylki (province) in western Norway that I have
not been to (soon to change). The Sygnir (and a few near neighbors)
were the last folk in Norway to speak Norse, doing so centuries
after other Norwegians had abandoned the old language for Modern
Danish. And they paid the price: poverty, unemployement, extreme
forms of social prejudice, open ridicule. In the end, they were
forced, like everyone else, to adopt some form of Dano-Norwegian,
but the bitterness lingers. Now, in recent years, there has been a
modern resurgence in dialect-pride in Norway, a kind of 'fuck you'
to years of social prejudice and shit-throwing against non-speakers
of the 'fine' Dano-Norwegian dialect of the upper-class. So, dialect
is a point of pride. The problem for the folk from Sogn (and also
some neighboring areas, like Hardanger, parts of Hordaland, etc.) is
that instead of being recognized for their unique dialect, they get
asked if they are Icelanders. In fact, all of the folk that I have
met from this area confirm this. Both Icelanders and Norwegians make
this mistake consistently, as does anyone else conversant with the
basics of MIce. pronunciation. It sounds crazy, but its true (if a
person on this list is from this region, please speak up on this).
Of course, not all of them are as rude (or just tired of it) as the
man who just walked away from me. One of the ones that I have talked
to is, in fact, proud of the fact that his dialect is pronounced so
like Icelandic that everyone notices it. He figured that Icelandic
was a better language anyway and was fond of the association. After
all, Icelandic is far better than the Dano-Norwegian monstrocity, as
he put it, and noted that folk in his area were more related to the
Icelanders than other Norwegians. Well, they do look identical, I
have to add. Something about this facinates me. These folk descend
from the last resistance against the Dano-Norwegian language/culture
in Norway, and they are remarkably Icelandic in character, looks and
language. If someone is offended by these comments, don't be, as it
is really a compliment. By saying that they are very Icelandic, I do
not mean to take anything away from their uniqueness/original ity. So
have a look at the language link above, note pronunciation and see
my next post, where I'll make some comments that some readers might
be shocked by.

-K