From: Scott Schroder
Message: 7130
Date: 2006-09-23
>From: "akoddsson" <konrad_oddsson@...>Yes, I don't recall encountering reference to Eddic performance in saga.
>Reply-To: norse_course@yahoogroups.com
>To: norse_course@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [norse_course] Re: Jawharp contra Wagner
>Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 17:08:26 -0000
>
>Heill Scott!
>
>--- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Schroder"
><speculum_terra_incognito@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hello -
> >
> > I play and record music and have had a fairly substantial
>curiosity on the subject of music in ON and its relationship to the
>performance of the material from that culture that is available to
>us. It should be noted that the number of references to Eddic or
>skaldic poetry in saga without musical accompaniment is certainly
>far more common than reference to performance that does feature
>music.
>
>There are almost no references to eddic material or it's performance
>in saga-literature. This is likely because such performances would
>no longer have occured after christianization, and thus be centuries
>older than an average saga-writers direct experience. One of the few
>references, that does occur, is found in the so-called Nornagests
>��ttr from a rescension of �lafs Saga Tryggvasonar. It is a type of
>missionary-story, where the king is visited by a guest, who turns
>out to be the norse god ��inn in disguise. The wise, story-telling
>guest 'sl� Gunnarsslag' for his listeners, which means that it was
>performed as music. This would be a piece of the eddic type. Indeed,
>Gunnarr himself, a Burgundian king, plays the harp with his toes in
>the norse tradition while he dies a snake-pit. Jordanes claims that
>the Goths played and sung their heroic songs. When �lafs guest 'sl�'
>a 'slag', we see two words from the same root, both used about the
>act of playing an instrument (Eng. slay/slew). 'slag' is a neuter
>synonym for masc. sl�ttr, and both mean a piece of music, something
>'slain'. The verb 'sl�' can also refer to the act of playing a
>musical instrument. In fact, traditional norse, solo musical pieces
>are still called sl�ttr, pl. sl�ttir (Mod.Norw.& Swed. sl�ttar). We
>do not know for certain what the norse called eddic material in
>general (Snorri Sturluson is thought to have applied the term Edda
>to his book about norse poetry, and the term Eddukv��i is modern),
>but a term used by Snorri (forn v�sindi) is certainly a candidate
>for ancient usage. Several titles of eddic pieces refer to song or
>chant, such as Gr�ttas�ngr and Gr�galdr, where s�ngr is song and
>galdr is chant (of a religious type - gala means to chant/sing).
>There is wide agreement that eddic material was performed/sung by
>the ancient norse, which is of course the topic of recontructing the
>music of such performances is such a hot topic. Aryan folk, such as
>the Indian Hindus and Zoroastrians, still preserve their ancient
>traditions of religious chant. For instance, Aryan priests intone
>verses (prayers, blessings, good wishes, etc.) according to a set,
>inherited tonal-system. Typically, in Hindu chant, the same three
>tones are used in standard chants, such as the daily G�yatra-mantra
>prayer (3 times each day at fixed times). Many consider that the
>norse were originally a non-christian folk, and that their religion
>was of the Aryan-type, rather than the Semitic or any other, and
>that a norse priest (ON go�i, Go./PN gudja) would have chanted after
>some such tonal-pattern as his Hindu equivalent, for instance. Of
>cource, chant would also have been performed by non-priests as well.
>In rimur, which is one of the surviving nordic musical tradtions,
>the poetry is sung/intoned in a way that is likely related to this
>ancient religious chant, but just how is hard to say.
> > I haven't undertaken an inquiry into the subject adequate to_________________________________________________________________
>warrant a decisive conclusion, but my impression is certainly
>that the familiar verse material that we have artifacts of now was
>primarily or exclusively performed without music.
>
>See above. I also refer you to the Sequetia project, which is the
>best known of modern efforts to reconstruct eddic musical performance
>
> > There are ballads from all of the Scandinavian countries and at
>least some of the Viking Age colonies, such as the Faroes, whose
>origin is at least immediately subsequent to the Viking Age, if not
>before.
>
>Yes.
>
> > Jorge Luis Borges wrote fictional material about archaic Germanic
>lays being sung with the accompaniment exclusively of the harp. He
>certainly was an avid student of archaic Germanic verse, and it
>would surprise me terribly if this was a reference to a valid
>tradition, but of course it could certainly also be fictional
>construction.
>
>The Germanic harp is, indeed, known to have been used by Germanics
>while performing traditional poetry.
>
> > Finally, I think that it would be inappropriate for me to go into
>an exposition of the different types of tuning systems, and
>therefore the likely ON tuning, on thsi list. However, 12 equal
>intervalic tuning was not used by any culture until the 17th century.
>
>Yes.
>
> > Most cultures seem to have naturally adopted a system called just
>intonation, one of the implications of which is that instruments
>would be intrinsically limited to one, or at the most a few,
>different scales.
>
>Yes. Knowing which ones would tell us a lot, especially if there is
>a source for the time signature/rythym (for instance, lj��ah�ttr,
>used in eddic song, where the stress pattern must be related to the
>time signature of the music - incidentally, lj�� can mean song, in
>addition to poem, as in German lied)
>
> > The system of 12 equal intervals per octave was employed to allow
>an instrument to play numerous scales, with the accuracy of a given
>scale correspondingly diminished. You can read more about just
>intonation by performing a search of the Internet, I'm sure. I don't
>have any references that I can provide offhand.
>
>Yes. You mention that in this earlier system instruments would be
>limited to 'one, or the most a few, different scales'. The question
>here, as regards norse music, is which scales? Without ready-tuned,
>extant instruments, there will be debate, and there is. This is why
>the jaw-harp is so critical, as it is untunable and known to have
>been played by the norse - thus the scale-debate is solved, at least
>for this instrument. By studying the harp's use in non-christianized
>cultures where it occurs (and where the norse may have got it from),
>we can learn something about how the norse likely used it. Siberian
>shamans use it to heal folk, in Asia it is used in religious chant
>(India, China, Indonesia, etc.). Like the Australian aboriginal
>digeredoo, the jawharp is a hypnotic, trance-inspiring instrument.
>The tones are nature-tones, translating Scandinavian usage here. As
>we know that the norse played this instrument, and as it's use in
>non-christianized cultures is documented, it is reasonble to assume
>that the norse usage was similar. Lastly, if the harp's use was more
>connected to norse religion than any other instrument, it would not
>be surprising if it disappeared completely, or nearly so, which is
>in fact the case. Yet it did survive in Germania, even if barely,
>and this tells us something about norse tonality, indeed.
>
>Regards,
>Konrad
>
> > Best regards.
> >
> > >From: "akoddsson" <konrad_oddsson@...>
> > >Reply-To: norse_course@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: norse_course@yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: [norse_course] Re: Jawharp contra Wagner
> > >Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 11:38:18 -0000
> > >
> > >Good link below. I have an interest in reconstructing the
>authentic
> > >norse poetic and musical performance of pre-christian times. I
>also
> > >like and listen to rimur, nordic folk music (even play some of
>it).
> > >I have followed the Sequentia reconstruction, but am not all that
> > >satisfied with the results, as the group seems too 'operatic' and
> > >studied to my ears. Rimur, although post-christian by many
>centuries
> > >and therefore less authentically norse, are more interesting to
>me,
> > >as they seem to preserve something more similar to what I imagine
> > >authentic norse performance to have been like. I imagine that the
> > >average 'singer' was untrained in the modern sense (not
>Sequentia),
> > >that he was rural (not surprising), learned his art from the older
> > >local singers, and used a tonality different from that represented
> > >by the modern 'well- or even-tempered' 12 tone scale. All of this,
> > >of course, is true about rimur (also about nordic folk-music on
>the
> > >whole). Furthermore, I imagine that such a rural 'singer' of old
> > >would have had some musical accompaniment (see other oral cultures
> > >on this point), but that this would have been typically sparse and
> > >performed by a musician/musical specialist (probably one, but
>maybe
> > >more in a higher class, court-setting) who was trained to
>accompany
> > >such performance. Also, I imagine that such performances,
>typically
> > >in a rural setting, would have included some prose-links/story-
> > >telling between sung/chanted/intoned verse-sections, as well as
>some
> > >solo musical pieces (slættir), whose rules and tradition
>would be as
> > >complex as that of the poetry (compare the surviving traditions
>with
> > >their ornately nordic, poly-tonal, highly structured, virtuosity -
> > >solo fire, but accompaniment-style in performance with poetry).
>Now,
> > >we can easily reduce that the times/rythmic-types used were the
>same
> > >as those lying behind pre-christian, traditional germanic verse,
>for
> > >example fornyrdislag or ljodahattr. This tells us something about
> > >the time, which would have been hammered out by a steady foot,
>just
> > >as in surviving nordic traditional music. The grey area, of
>course,
> > >is tonality. What scales/tones were really used by authentic norse
> > >singers of old? We can figure that tonality was regional and
>learned
> > >from older, local performers (shown by all surviving nordic
>musical
> > >traditions, including rimur), and that singers (and musicians)
>had a
> > >personal style, highly influenced by their masters, but
>identifiably
> > >their own on some telling points. Now, the tonality of any
>randomly
> > >selected, modern performance could just as easily be taken from
> > >church-music as from pre-christian music. Indeed, there is reason
>to
> > >believe that many, perhaps most, of the scales found are foreign
>in
> > >origin, and thus not truely representative of authentic norse
>music
> > >or poetry (a fair amount of ink has been spilled on this topic).
>The
> > >problem is that we do not possess any stringed instruments
>(fiddles,
> > >langspil, harps, etc.) or bored ones (bone-flutes, willow-flutes,
> > >etc.) where the tuning/tonality is a)preserved intact and b)deemed
> > >to represent typical tonality at the time. Folk were raised with a
> > >certain tonal-background, much as they were with a cultural one in
> > >general. They 'heard' music a certain way and could, not doubt,
>deem
> > >any music native or foreign by ear. Now, I have done some research
> > >on musical intruments of the time (as have many others more
>learned
> > >than I on this topic) and have discovered the following, which I
>do
> > >think is Odin's golden-key, so to say, for us modern folk (the
>quiet
> > >revenge of the aged-one against the killers of germanic music):
>the
> > >mouth-harp. This simple, portable instrument is found everywhere
>in
> > >Germanic soil, as it was discarded when the tongue broke and a new
> > >one obtained. It was cheap, easily made by any smith wanting to
>make
> > >a little extra money. In my research, I have read about, visited
>and
> > >seen iron- and viking-age mouth harps. Now, this intrument is
>Odin's
> > >golden for the following two reasons: 1) it was actually played by
> > >actual norse persons in norse times (with no other musical,
>cultural
> > >or religious back-ground than a norse one, as far as we can tell)
> > >and 2) unlike other intruments (surviving or not) thought to
>really
> > >have existed at the time in norse culture, the mouth-harp cannot
>be
> > >tuned - it has only one tonality. Play the mouth-harp in the
>museum
> > >and it will still sound exactly like it did when it was made,
>given
> > >only that its tongue is intact. No tongue? Make a copy and it will
> > >still sound identical. This gives us a tonality (with a tonic
>note,
> > >a primary scale and microtonal series), which singers must
>likewise
> > >have used while being accompanied by this instrument. How popular
>or
> > >truely representative was this instrument? Archeaology tells us
>that
> > >it was very typical. Consider also the affordability and
>portability
> > >issues: 1) most folk were poor and good instruments expensive 2)
>the
> > >mouth-harp is portable - just but it in your pocket and set sail.
>It
> > >is logical to assume that ancients loved music as much as we do,
>and
> > >that aspiring musicians took their instruments everywhere, just as
> > >many moderns still do (despite recording-technology, music-players
> > >and less demand for actual live performance). One imagines that,
>in
> > >ancient times, a man heard no music unless 1)he sand or played 2)
>he
> > >had contact with someone who sang or played. A great environment
>to
> > >sell cheap, easily made instruments in, indeed. As there is no
>real
> > >doubt that old singers would have been accompanied by a mouth-
>harp,
> > >often if not exclusively, and that some/most of them would
>likewise
> > >have played it themselves (though not while singing, obviously),
>can
> > >be not assume that the harp's tonality also occured in singing?
>This
> > >would seem a natural enough conclusion. Now, I certainly do wonder
> > >why Sequentia, for example, did no use this instrument, and why
>the
> > >other viking-age musical reconstructions that I have heard do not
> > >use it either. Perhaps the instrument is considered too primitive
>or
> > >not glamorous enough for moderns with romantic ideas about the
>noble
> > >ancient germanics' musical tradition. Wagner or not, one singer
>and
> > >one jawharp player would be, I think, typical enough of an ancient
> > >performance. Thoughts welcome.
> > >
> > >Regards,
> > >Konrad
> > >
> > >
> > >--- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > THE LINK: I just came across this book online: "Kv��askapur:
> > >Icelandic Epic Song", by Hreinn Steingr�msson. It looks
>interesting
> > >although there's a lot that's too technical for me to understand.
> > >It discusses the possibility that the traditional Icelandic
> > >singing/chanting style might go back to very early times, and that
> > >Old English poetry could have been performed in a similar way.
> > >Unfortunately some of the special Icelandic characters don't show
> > >up, so watch out for missing '�', etc.
> > >
> > > > http://music.calarts.edu/KVAEDASKAPUR/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > THE CORRECTION: For some reason I absentmindedly added 'ik' in
>that
> > >first line of the would-be Gothic verse in my reply to Konrad,
>which
> > >should have read: 'Brikan skal airis, bro�ar,' (an attempted
> > >translation of ON 'bresta mun fyrr, br��ir').
> > >
> > >Noted. Nice ;)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
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