From: xigung
Message: 6094
Date: 2006-03-22
--- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, LM <lavrans@...> wrote:
>
> Xigung-
>
> What font are you using?
>
> Larry M
>
> xigung wrote:
> > I tried to look into the difference between the definite and
> > indefinite forms of nouns. Here are some examples from Heimskringla:
> >
> > "Ef þú vilt hafa vináttu mÃÂna þá leggðu allan hug á að
> > maðurinn sé
> > eigi drepinn fyrir sunnudag."
> > ( If you want to have my friendship, put your whole mind to it, that
> > the man is not killed before Sunday ) -- a definite person is in
> > danger here.
> >
> > "En hinn göfgi maður mælti við hann: "Farðu til
Ã"lafskirkju þeirrar
> > er àLundúnum stendur"
> > (And the magnanimous man said to him: "Go to their Olaf's Curch that
> > stands in London ) -- here the form is definite, because of the
> > definite article "hinn" which has to go before the noun when an
> > adjective (göfgi) is used as additional determination.
> >
> > "Þar féll Margaður konungur og hver maður er honum fylgdi,
ungur og
> > gamall."
> > (There king Margadur fell, and every man who followed him, young
as well
> > as old) -- here the proper name Margadur has a determing effect upon
> > konungur. An article is not necessary. Upon maður the word hver
> > (every) also acts determining. In that case an article is also not
needed.
> >
> > Well, there are quite a few examples in Heimskringla, 576 with maður,
> > to be exact, and only 10 with maðurinn. But it is difficult to draw
> > any quick conclusion from this, but for the obvious, since in
> > many of the cases maður has been determined by some other
> > determinative than the postfixed article, such as hinn, sá or hver.
> >
> >
> > The statistics for konungur vs. konungurinn in Heimskringla is
> > 3519 vs. 29.
> >
> > En er Haraldur hinn hárfagri var konungur àNoregi þá byggðist
> > ÃÂsland.
> > Það var eitt sumar er Agni konungur fór með her sinn á
Finnland,
> > gekk þar upp og herjaði.
> > Aðils konungur kom með her sinn til Saxlands.
> > "Húskarla," segir hann. Konungur mælti: "Hve marga viltu þá
eiga?"
> > En um morguninn er menn vöknuðu þá fór konungur til fjalls
og mælti
> > við Brúsa: "Hér skal nú gera bæ ...
> > Hann var þar nær og svarar, spurði hvað konungur vildi honum.
> >
> > SÃÂðan töluðu þeir konungurinn og Sveinn marga hluti ÃÂ
einmælum.
> > Konungurinn tók það ráð að hann fór upp á Heiðmörk á fund
> > Hræreks konungs
> > Þá þótti honum konungurinn svara: "Þá skaltu með mér fara."
> > Þá mælti Kár af Grýtingi: "Hvàfer konungurinn nú svo? Vill
> > hann enn
> > eigi blóta?"
> > "Vel hefir konungurinn alið oss.
> >
> > I am not sure if I can extract some definite rules from this.
> > But it seems to me that in some cases you can refer to the king
> > either as konungur, or as konungurinn, and that it does not matter
> > much. In any case, it is not difficult to translate to correct
> > English, even if there is not always a fixed formula for which
> > form to use in ON.
> >
> > Xigung.
> >
>