I've been
using Zoega, that is a good one :) I haven't seen any others
online.
thank you
much for the kind words and I will do my best to learn it :)
In
Service,
Ísólfr
From: norse_course@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:norse_course@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Patricia Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 12:16 PM To:
norse_course@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [norse_course] Re:
Miscellanea Section L Subsection (iii)/Translation
Saell Ísólfr
You have a good background for learning Old Norse, with
all the languages you speak or have a certain knowledge of, there are
elements related through the passage of time to Old Norse, I would hardly
think you would find it difficult
this url gives you access to the home page, but for the
actual spoken stuff, I hope there is Llama Nom or Haukurth may know of
perhaps tapes or CD's, it's good to see more people joining in you are
welcome
Kveðja
Patricia
you will want a good dictionary I wonder if you let Haukurth
know which language you like best from which to learn Old Norse, he could
recommend one, I like Zoega best - Old Norse and English
Subject: RE: [norse_course] Re:
Miscellanea Section L Subsection (iii)/Translation
Greetings,
a stupid
question that you all have probably been asked many times... How hard is it
learning Old Norse.. I'm from Danmark, I now live in the US, I'm part of the
SCA here in the US, I'm a 10th century Viking, great times :) however, I'm
trying to get into it with heart and soul, so therefor I would like to learn
Old Norse or at least SOME Old Norse :) I was looking over all the lessons
you all have around here... they're all great, however, what I learn alot
from too is hearing words spoken, so now my question is, is there anywhere I
can find words spoken with their meanings... a bunch of soundfiles are fine
:) I'm determined to learn this... current I speak, ofcourse Danish,
English, then I know German, some Swedish and Norwegian. not sure if this
helps any :)
thank
you much for taking the time to read this email.
In
Service,
Ísólfr
From: norse_course@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:norse_course@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Patricia Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 11:22 AM To:
norse_course@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [norse_course] Re:
Miscellanea Section L Subsection (iii)/Translation
I am glad to see that LN, because I am really pleased to
have got most of the Kennings, Kennings are worth researching IMO, I am no
poet, but the use of Kennings and allusion are both fascinating in their
way
Kveðja
Patricia
The idea of the bane/sorrow of snakes as a kenning for
winter, is now a favorite of mine
Subject: [norse_course] Re:
Miscellanea Section L Subsection (iii)/Translation
Well, I butted in earlier because I thought this
was a bit of a tangled one and not really fair to unleash on
beginners, but actually you all did impressively well in riddling
out the meanings. In case anyone doesn't have access to
Gordon's translation, here it is: "I have laid a loop on the heath
beyond Jordan--the wise lady will remember this during the serpent's
sorrow [lit. path-thong's]; but I think it seems far to all
stay-at-home's to go thither; blood fell warm on the wide
plain."
> > 'Ek hefi lagða lykkju leiðar þvengs
of heiði > I have placed a coil of lace of (the) way over (the)
heath.
'leiðar þvengs' "lace/thong of the way" [snake] would
seem to be parenthetical, not connected with this sentence but
rather with 'sút'. The 'sút þvengs leiðar' "sorrow of the
thong of the road" = "serpent's sorrow". The skalds often
spliced their sentences like this, and the confusion caused by the
fact that he's already talking about tying knots may well be
deliberate!
The kenning might seem bizarre but is actually a
conventional way of referring to seasons in skaldic verse, according
to how amenable the weather is to snakes. Snorri says that
winter can be called 'bani orma' "death/bane/killer of snakes", and
summer 'líkn ormanna' "comfort/relief/mercy of the snakes". He
cites Ormr Steinþórsson's kenning 'orms tregi' "snake's grief" for
winter.
Did the poets care about snakes? I think it was
just a good excuse for gratuitous snake-kennings. For example,
Sörlastikki, in Sörla þáttr, has 'dalreyðar miskunnar'
"dale-rorqual's [=land-fish = serpent's] mercies", that is to say:
the season which is kind to the snake, i.e. summer. Similarly
Egill Skallagrímsson called summer 'dalmiskunn fiska'. Here
the elements of the kenning are swapped, but the intended meaning is
'miskunn dalfiska' "mercy of [i.e. for] dale-fishes",
summer.
> Snotr minnisk þess svanni > A wise
woman (will) be reminded of that
Or simply "remember that"
(his tying of the knots).
See
above: sorrow nothing to do with the wise woman, just part of the
kenning for winter. Yes, I think dat.sg.
> en
hykk at þó þykki > but I think that nevertheless (it)
seems
The (dative) subject of 'þykki' is 'heimdrögum öllum'
"all stay-at- homes" in the final line: I think it seems to them; I
think [that] they think [that] it [is] a long way to walk/go there
[to where I tied the knots, on the heath beyond the River
Jordan].
> þangat langt at ganga > a long way to
walk from there,
'þangat' "to there, thither" (þann veg at),
rather than "from there, thence", which would be 'þaðan'. Slip
of the keyboard, no doubt.
> (blóð fell varmt á víðan
> blood fell warm on (the) wide > völl) heimdrögum
öllum > plain, for all those who yearn for [are drawn to] home
I'm not even sure there needs to be an excuse to mention
blood in Viking poetry. Violence was done, it almost goes
without saying. Like the woman, it might refer to a particular
event, or it might be just part of the convention. It seems
like a parenthetical interjection, as Gordon punctuates it, in the
middle of the sentence about it seeming a long way to
stay-at-homes.
How was that? Hope I haven't confused things
even more.