Saell Alan,
You make a very good job of explaining, and I agree, I need much better understanding of the syntax, and I rather think I shall go back to putting in the red lines, unless future study produces a better understanding of the Syntax, I have Faarlund's Syntax of Old Norse, and I am going to dive right in and study.
Also, Alan the idea - you gave in last para, is also very appealing, I want to have this Old Norse, to study and to do really well at it, and at last having the time, I can certainly spare plenty to my studies. I appreciate your advice very much indeed
Kveðja
Patricia
----- Original Message -----
From: AThompson
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 12:09 PM
Subject: RE: [norse_course] Auðun section 16/feedback Patricia

Sæl Patricia

 

I think it worth the effort to render translations in fluent English but only based on a complete understanding of the text. If you reshape the original syntax too much I may be unable to tell whether your translation was soundly based. For example, take the sentence from the latest section:   

 

'Þetta sýnisk mér undarliga kosit". This seems to me an extraordinary choice

 

The translation here (pretty much the one you gave) is a perfectly fine translation in terms expressing of the meaning of the original, but there is nothing to indicate that ‘undarliga’ was recognised as an adverb or ‘kosit’ as a past participle of kjósa, rather than as an adjective and noun respectively. Mér sýnisk þetta vera undarligr kostr.

 

I suggest if you don´t wish to have a complete separate line for each of your literal translation and your modern english rendering, you may present the translation either as: This seems to me an extraordinary choice (literally: extraordinarily chosen)  or This seems to me extraordinarily chosen (an extraordinary choice) to demonstrate that both the grammar and meaning are understood.

 

Kveðja

Alan

 

-----Original Message-----
From: norse_course@yahoogroups.com [mailto:norse_course@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Patricia
Sent: Monday, 18 April 2005 9:30 PM
To: norse_course@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [norse_course] Auðun section 16/feedback Patricia

 

Thank you Alan, I can see I'm making much too much effort to give my translation the semblance of modern English, I see that this comes out badly, and again  I have to get back to the study of the syntax.

Kveðja

Patricia

----- Original Message -----

From: AThompson

Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 11:19 AM

Subject: RE: [norse_course] Auðun section 16/feedback Patricia

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: norse_course@yahoogroups.com [mailto:norse_course@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Patricia
Sent: Saturday, 16 April 2005 4:17 AM
To: norse_course@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [norse_course] Auðun section 16

 

Þat er nú sagt einhverju sinni of várit,  

it is [now] said that sometime (I got lost here) [during] [the spring]

 at konungr býðr Auðuni at vera með sér álengðar,

the King iffers [offers (typo), invites] Auðun to stay with him for the future

ok kvezk myndu gøra hann skutilsvein sinn ok leggja til hans góða virðing.

and wishes to [literally: declares, says (of himself) (that he) would] make him His Own cup-bearer and place on him great [not so great, only good] honour

 Auðun segir, 'Guð þakki yðr, herra, sóma þann allan er þér vilið til mín leggja;

Auðun says "May God thank you (pl) Lord (soma) as much as you would (?subj [I don’t think so as the wanting is not conditional, it is a statement of fact, but note anyway that indicative form of vilja is identical to subjunctive in 2nd pers pres])  dispose on my place ( or as much as you wish to give me honour) [(for) all that honour  which you want to place on me (sóma þann allan is accusative)]

 en hitt er mér í skapi at fara út til Íslands.'

it (?occurs) to me (dat?) to prefer [literally: but that is to me in disposition, ie that is on my mind, or I am otherwise disposed] to travel forth [literally: out, abroad, (fara út generally means to go abroad)] to Iceland

 Konungr segir, 'Þetta sýnisk mér undarliga kosit".

The King says "That [this, neut of þessi] to me, seems an extraordinary choice [literally: extraordinarily (adverb) chosen (past participle)]"

 Auðun mælti: 'Eigi má ek þat vita, herra', segir hann, 'at ek hafa hér mikinn sóma með yðr,

Auðun answers [answered, past] " I cannot bear to know Lord said [says, pres!] he "that I have here such great honour with you"

en móðir mín troði stafkarls stíg út á Íslandi;

and [but] my Mother wanders  living as a Vagrant [literally: the path of a beggar] in Iceland  (implies – meanwile [yes])

því at nú er lokit björg þeiri er ek lagða til, áðr ek fœra af Íslandi.'

because by now it is used up, the provisions [those which] I had placed (for her) to; [before] I could (?subj) return to [travelled from] Iceland

[note: that in this sentence hafa, troði, lagða, fœra, are all in subjunctive form because they are expressing Auðun´s thoughts, not facts. Rule:  use subjunctive in subordinate at-clauses after verbs of wishing, commanding, needing, thinking, fearing, expecting, feeling seeming, saying. My question is why er (in er lokit) does not also use the subjunctive form of vera, sé]

 Konungr svarar: 'Vel er mælt', segir hann, 'ok mannliga, ok muntu verða giptumaðr.

The King spoke [answers, pres]  " That is well answered" says he "and Valiantly (or honourably) and you shall be a fortunate man"   

 Sjá einn var svá hlutrinn, at mér myndi eigi mislíka at þú fœrir í braut heðan.

This alone would make me not displeased if [literally: This alone was so (just) the condition/reason that would not displease me] that you travel away from here

[Here is another example of a subordinate at-clause, with fœrir in the subjunctive form]

Ok ver nú með mér þar til er skip búask.' Hann gørir svá.

and stay now with me then, until a ship is Prepared  he (gøra) [does] thus. I guess - he did even so. might be right here

Alan I am unsure, exactly, but I am getting used to the tenses and to seeing the subjunctive more easily like - "until I could return" it was what he would have liked to have done, but the outcome at that time was uncertain, would you please advise

Kveðja

Patricia

I find using the "Tricolor" gets in the way now, so - black and blue with green for notes I hope that suits, better. I have left spaces for your corrections

----- Original Message -----

From: AThompson

Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 10:18 AM

Subject: RE: [norse_course] Auðun section 16

 

Here is the next installment of Auðun.  It’s a slightly longer sections than normal but I couldn’t find a natural break mid paragraph.

 

The “hooked o” has been banished and replaced throughout with ö :o) J

 

Given that Laurel is interested in resuming Hrafnkels saga, but has little spare time before the end of April, I will postpone the resumption to early May.

 

Kveðja

Alan

 

Þat er nú sagt einhverju sinni of várit, at konungr býðr Auðuni at vera með sér álengðar, ok kvezk myndu gøra hann skutilsvein sinn ok leggja til hans góða virðing. Auðun segir, 'Guð þakki yðr, herra, sóma þann allan er þér vilið til mín leggja; en hitt er mér í skapi at fara út til Íslands.' Konungr segir, 'Þetta sýnisk mér undarliga kosit.' Auðun mælti: 'Eigi má ek þat vita, herra', segir hann, 'at ek hafa hér mikinn sóma með yðr, en móðir mín troði stafkarls stíg út á Íslandi; því at nú er lokit björg þeiri er ek lagða til, áðr ek fœra af Íslandi.' Konungr svarar: 'Vel er mælt', segir hann, 'ok mannliga, ok muntu verða giptumaðr. Sjá einn var svá hlutrinn, at mér myndi eigi mislíka at þú fœrir í braut heðan. Ok ver nú með mér þar til er skip búask.' Hann gørir svá.