Hello Sarah and L.N.
Thank you for your comments Llama Nom, I put (again?) in as more a comment of my own, in Effect I was expressing an imagined concern for poor Auðun, here he was looking a mess and about to meet His Majesty, and he wants to hide his face, and I wondered if for the sake of conveying the idiom in English should I put the word in or not, hence my seeming confuson.
Arrives back in Denmark yes I agree - much better. and re your comment is this a tentative part of the translation (yes it is that)  and are you yourself confused no I reckon not.
 I find that you understand my hesitancy very well, and I think I am doing reasonably since up till the time I joined the group, I had not read any Old norse at all and decided to join from pure fascination with the Language per se, and this unquenchable thirst I have for my studies, and at last with the time to indulge it. I haVE  the books now whereas firstly I had only my Zoega.
 
'þá' "then", rather than "there", but you're right we probably
wouldn't translate it here in English.  This is how I think this bit, 
 
 
this and all following I must check up AND STUDY, (oops caps lock on) I am grateful for the comments I'm getting from you guys  I will print up your words and hold them on file with all my notes about Poor Auðun, I hope he gets his job back.
Kveðja
Patricia

 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2005 5:14 PM
Subject: Re: [norse_course] Re: Auðun - section 13/feedback Patricia

Thanks for that, Llama Nom - I do struggle with use of the subjunctive, but that seems to make sense to me.
 
Cheers,
Sarah.
----- Original Message -----
From: llama_nom
Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2005 5:04 PM
Subject: [norse_course] Re: Auðun - section 13/feedback Patricia



Sælar Sarah & Patricia,

ætlaði þá til fundar við konung, er hann gengi til kirkju um kveldit

I think 'gengi' is subjuctive because the subject, as Patricia
points out, is the king, who hasn't arrived yet when Audun makes
this decision to meet him in the church, if and when he does turn
up.  The king coming is grammatically speaking all part of Audun's
wish/plan, not a foregone conclusion.

>     Hann kømr aptr í Danmörk
>     He comes after in Denmark
>     He arrived then in Denmark

I think this is: "He arrives back in Denmark".



>      ok var í kirkjuskoti ok ætlaði þá til fundar við konung,
>     and was in a wing of church and thought there to meet with the
King
>     and waited in a wing of the Church hoping to meet the King


I like the way you've turned this into idiomatic English.  It flows
well and the meaning seems just right!



>     Ok nú er hann sá konunginn ok hirðina fagrliga búna,
>     and now that he sees the King and his Retainers (his Company)
beautifully clad
>     And now that (again?) he saw the King and his retainers so
well dressed
>
>      þá þorði hann eigi at láta sjá sik. 
>     there dares he not at place be seen
>     he dare not show his face.


The idiomatic line seems good to me, but you sound confused,
although I'm not sure what about.  Is "again" a comment, or a
tentative part of the translation?  Or is it just me that's
confused...

Ok nú er hann sá...þá þorði hann eigi at láta sjá sik
"now that he saw...he didn't dare let himself be seen"
or you could say: "but when he saw...he didn't dare let himself be
seen"

'þá' "then", rather than "there", but you're right we probably
wouldn't translate it here in English.  This is how I think this bit
works: The combination 'þá er' = "when" or "as", but here it's split
up.  'þá' introduces the main clause, which comes second, and 'er'
introduces the first clause which is dependent on the second: nú
er...þá "(now) when X, then Y".

I reckon 'at' is just the infinitive marker here 'þorði...at
láta' "dared...to let", rather performing its role as a locative
adverb "at that place".

Incidentally, I've found that 'ok' and 'en' tend to follow a law
unto themselves in Old Norse.  'ok' is usually "and",
occasionally "but"; 'en' usually "but", quite often "and" or some
intermediate meaning between "and" and "but".  To make a natural
sounding English translation you sometimes have to ignore which word
the Norse uses, and just think what would be most logical in English.

Llama Nom





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