Heil Sarah!

Yes,this actually helps a lot.. now when i´m thinking about it,it seems to be quite simple the use of expressions was as difficult then as it is now in many languages,and all you can do is to learn how they are used.Who ever wrote this story assumed that it would be clare for everyone what bodhvarr didn´t ask for and if you are about to stable your horse in a king´s stable you have a good reason to ask for permission.And then again if it´s not obvious what you ask for there has to be an object.Have i got this right?

see yah !!

thomas

 Sarah Bowen <bowensli@...> wrote:

Sæll Thomas!
 
Another thought occurred to me overnight about "spyrja at" ... see if it helps...
 
Working on the basis that your dictionary definition of "to ask for" is correct and that Barnes and the professional translators are also correct in translating this as "ask about", it occurred to me that the difference is contextual and grammatical.
 
You see, prepositions are a nightmare for language learners - the same words can have different meanings in different contexts.  Take for example the English phrasal verb "to check out".  You can take your shopping to the supermarket till to have the items checked out.  Or you can take your bank statement to the bank manager because you think they've made a mistake and have that checked out.  Same words, different meaning.
 
Perhaps the clue with this "spyrja at" is that when you ask someone for something, the object (what you ask them for) is stated.  Here, however, "hann spyrr engan at" and it doesn´t say what he didn´t ask anyone about because it is assumed to refer to his action of stabling the horse.
 
Yes, I think you are right that using an object here is unnecessary because that is implied.  As to whether these constructions are common, I really don´t know.  Can anyone advise us here, please?
 
Again, you're right that the text says nothing about 'permission' as such, but the meaning is loosely implied from the context and so the translator felt it made for a clearer translation.
 
Hope this helps.
Kveðja,
 
Sarah.
 
Does this help?
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 5:52 PM
Subject: Re: [norse_course] Professional translations of Bodvar Bjarki

Heil Sarah

First of all i´d like to thank you for your comments on my translation they clarified many things.But i´m still a little bit confused about this"spyrja at" phrase ; here they have translated it like:"without asking anyone´s permission" in the first translation but in the other one it´s  "asking leave of no one" in my dictionary again spyrja at is translated  "ask for" and you give me "ask about".The old norse text doesn´t say anything about permissions or whatever he could have asked for (=no object).Is the object in this case unnecessary? is this way to use phrases very common??    

see ya

Thomas

 Sarah Bowen <bowensli@...> wrote:

Sæl!
 
I thought you might be interested to see what the professionals make of this text.  The first is by Jesse Byock and the second by Gwyn Jones.
 
Bodvar continued on his way to Hleidargard.  After arriving at the king´s royal residence, he immediately stabled his horse in the stall with the king´s best mounts without asking anyone´s permission.  Then he entered the hall, where there were only a few men.  He sat down near the entrance, and after he had been there for a short time, he heard a noise coming from somewhere in the corner.  Bodvar looked in that direction and saw a man´s hand emerging from a huge pile of bones lying there.  The hand was very black.
 
 
Later Bothvar went on his way to Leire and arrived at the king´s residence.  He stabled his horse alongside the best of the king´s horses, asking leave of no one, and afterwards walked into the hall.  There were few men there.  He took a seat near the door, and when he had been there a short while he heard a kind of scrabbling away out in some corner or other.  Bothvar looked that way and saw how a man´s hand came up out of a huge pile of bones which lay there.  The hand was very black.
 
 
Interesting to see how the professionals do it and how even they come up with slightly different versions, depending on how close to the original text they stayed or how fluid a piece of English they wanted to achieve without compromising the meaning.
 
Any comments?
Bye for now,
 
Sarah.


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