SV: Re: I KALLEN - a response

"I am assuming that by "archaic form" you mean a form that occurs in

> old Swedish manuscripts from roughly 1200-1500?"

Well, Konrad, 'I kallen' was used until mid 20th century in written
Swedish. Some examples:

"Stirren rusige på döden, I som lefvat utan mod!" (Rydberg,
1876,1882) - here an imperative form.

"Sågo j thenna Synena?" (Isogaeus, about 1700) - note the ending '-o'
instead of '-en' and that he uses 'j', not 'I'. Note also the
accusative-ending '-ena' of the feminine noun 'syn' (i.e. 'vision').

"En evig otack skolen I få, sade gubben til den sloken, som hade
ridit.. (hästen) så illa." (Dalin, 1740)

"Genom det befäl, som vid ifrågavarande tillfälle varit krigsskolans
elever följaktigt, hafven I antagligen redan erhållit kännedom om
förhållandena vid branden." (Unknown to me, 1905) - except
for 'hafven I' (i.e. 'you have', here probably in singular) it looks
like perfectly modern written Swedish.

These examples are from SAOB on the net (Dictionary of Swedish
Academy) found at http://g3.spraakdata.gu.se/saob/ .

In my own Norse dialect (Central Jamtlandic) we would say something
like 'DA KALLAN'. In e.g. Dalska they would say either 'IÐ KALLIÐ'
or 'IR KALLIR' (Ð>R in some dalska dialects).

Ielsningger,
Annliuote


--- In norse_course@..., "konrad_oddsson" <konrad_oddsson@...>
wrote:

> Sæll Símon.
>
> > In the course of my Swedish studies, I have discovered the

archaic

> form I KALLEN. I understand that "I" meant "you (pl.)" and that the
> verb, e.g. KALLA (to call) had a special ending in -EN, which seems
> to have applied across all the conjugations except contracted verbs
> like TRO. I have a smattering of Icelandic, which is close to Old
> Norse, but the corresponding form there is ÞIÐ KALLIÐ, which

doesn't

> seem to fit the bill. Please, can anyone enlighten me as to the
> ultimate source of I KALLEN? I mean both the pronoun I and the
> ending EN.
> >
>
> I am assuming that by "archaic form" you mean a form that occurs in
> old Swedish manuscripts from roughly 1200-1500? If so, then here is
> the likely source of forms like "I KALLEN": a shift in

pronunciation

> from Ð to N in this position that occured in most East Norse
> dialects at various times during roughly the period 900-1300. I

have

> also observed this phenomenon on the course of my own studies in

old

> Swedish. As you noticed, the -EN ending applies across all the old
> conjugations with few exceptions. Historically, the change was from
> Ð to N and West Norse shows a more conservative form in this case.
> The use of E for I is in this case purely dialectical - some
> dialects had I and others E, showing no influence on the grammar
> either way. The Icelandic form ÞIÐ KALLIÐ should fit the bill just
> fine, as well as should the Icelandic formal plural ÞÉR KALLIÐ. ÞIÐ
> is the old dual form acting as a plural, whereas ÞÉR is the old
> plural form acting as a formal. The I in I KALLEN could represent
> either the West Norse dual IT, which became ÞIÐ, or the West Norse
> plural ÉR, which became ÞÉR, as there are no special dual forms of
> verbs in Old Norse or Old Swedish. Only the context can tell you
> whether the I in this case means West Norse IT or ÉR. Also, old

East

> Norse tended to prefer ÍR to ÉR in the plural. Finally, I want to
> point out that spelling was not fixed anywhere in Scandinavia

during

> this period - it could be quite erratic! Many manuspripts show no
> markings over vowels like I and E, thus leaving us to guess from

the

> context as to whether I in the case means ÍR/ÉR or IT/ET. I hope
> this will be useful to you in your studies.
>
> Regards,
> Konrad.