----- Original Message -----
From: "Haukur Thorgeirsson" <haukurth@...>
To: <norse_course@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 9:37 AM
Subject: Re: [norse_course] A translation needed


> > Here's my try using modern Icelandic usage and comparing against ON:
>
> Not too bad.

Thanks.

> > Justice = Frið (in the context of justice 'for peace'), réttur ('right'
as
> > in righteous)
>
> The word "friðr" (accusative "frið") means primarily
> 'peace'; secondary meanings are 'friendship' and 'love'.
>
> For 'justice' I would try "réttr", "réttlæti" and "réttvísi".

Me too, but I think the context means a lot here. Sometimes 'justice' is
used to mean the process by which peace is gained. I just put it out in case
it fit.

> > Loyalty = Trygð or Frið (depending)
>
> I would try "trygðir", "trúnaðr" and "trú".

I agree. Again, it depends though. Vilhelm Groenbech describes Frith as a
deep loyalty between those sworn to each other.

> > Humility = [auðmýkt hugarfarsins] - supposition (doesn't sound like a
> > primary 'ideal' in that culture. It's a phrase than a word for word
> > translation.'Auðmýkt' alone isn't enough.)
>
> Uhm... The word "auðmýkt" will do for 'meekness' or 'humility';
> "auðmýkt hugarfarsins" means 'humility of mind'.

auð- prefix = to promote/to ease
mýkt = softness, pliability
hugar = mind/thoughts
farsins = travels

To 'auðmýkt hugarfarsins' = easily pliable thoughts/decisions

To me, this isn't really a literal translation of what 'Humility' means in
English. But not being a native speaker of Icelandic/Old Norse, I'm sure
there is an inflection of meaning lost in the word-for-word translation.

I still stand by my statement that the concept is not very well rooted in
the idealogy of the culture. Compare with 'Courage', there are dozens of
words and variants to intone all the subtle degrees to which it could be
used.

> > Largesse = Örlátr
>
> "Örlátr" is an adjective; the related nouns
> are 'örleikr' and 'örlæti'.

I found 'örleikr' and 'örlæti' in my ICelandic Dictionary, but not in the
Old Norse dictionary so I hesitated to post them. Thanks for clearing this
up.

>
> > Nobility = Aðall
>
> I'm afraid "aðall" won't do; at least not
> for the name of a virtue. I'm actually not
> quite sure what 'nobility' does refer to.
> I'm afraid I'm not much of a knight.
>
> You might use 'hugprýði'.

Another hard one.

>
> > Franchise = [Einkaréttr] - supposition
>
> I don't know what 'franchise' means in this
> context. For 'liberty' or 'independence' we
> have "sjálfræði".

I'm stumped. I assume that my proposal is a modern term for a McDonald's.

>
> > > Greetings unto this list, from a sometime student, sometime lurker.
> > > I was requested to get the following words tranlated, and I have had
> > > absolutely no luck.
> > > They are: prowess justice loyalty defense
> > > courage faith humility largesse
> > > nobility franchise
>
> So, here is my "best guess" list of translations.
> I'm not sure I always picked the best word but at
> least all of the below _are_ words :)
>
> The right thing to do would be to read through one
> of the chivalry sagas (riddarasögur) and find out
> precisely which words are used there.
>
> prowess - hreysti
> justice - réttvísi
> loyalty - trúnaðr
> defence - vörn
> courage - kjarkr
> faith - trú
> humility - auðmýkt
> largesse - örleikr
> nobility - hugprýði
> franchise - sjálfræði
>
> Kveðja,
> Haukur

Sounds good to me... except for 'humility'. Not convinced yet.

-Laz