Will you be adding this info to a Lesson 2 update? I would like to archive
it with my other course work. Perhaps just a supplemental file?

-Craig

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Óskar Guðlaugsson [mailto:hr_oskar@...]
> Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 6:28 AM
> To: norse_course@egroups.com
> Subject: [norse_course] * LESSON 2 DEBRIEFING *
>
>
> Heil öll,
>
> As we're moving on to the next lesson, there are some things I must
> address; first, the many errors in the lesson itself and the
> additional exercises, and second, I'll talk a bit about common
> mistakes in the solutions sent to us.
>
> Lesson 2 has taught me and Haukur that we're severely prone to
> writing out Modern Icelandic forms, instead of different ON forms,
> without noticing, even after proof-reading. I hope you understand,
> especially if you consider a hypothetical example: you were to write
> texts in an older form of the language with very minor spelling
> differences, such as "goode" instead of "good", "publick" instead
> of "public", but with everything mostly the same; consider how easily
> you'd slip modern forms in, without noticing even after a second
> reading.
>
> I must apologize, in any case, on our behalf, for the various
> confusing and unfortunate mistakes we've presented in our lessons. I
> want to try to recount and dispel some, or hopefully all, of them:
>
> LESSON 2
>
> Haukur has corrected most of them and posted to you as he did so.
>
> LESSON 2 EXERCISES
>
> The big problem with this package was that I accidentally included a
> lot of vocabulary from the coming lesson (I got confused). Here is a
> list:
>
> * spyrja, spyr = ask (the one you ask is in accusative, to some
> students' surprise)
> * svara, svara = answer
> * kenna, kenni = recognize, know (a place or a person)
> * vilja = to want (an irregular verb, coming up in lesson 3; but see
> also the cartoon "The Spearman")
> * því at = because
>
> Two other mistakes:
>
> * "viljið" should be "vilið"; the form "viljið" is MI.
>
> * I wrote "þit sjá_ (see)" in the "insert missing endings"
> assignment, which was confusing (because the form that we use
> is "séð"); I was thinking of "sjáið", the modern form.
>
> I hope that, in the future, we will manage to contain these mental
> slips of ours. Never thought teaching ON could be hard for us because
> it's *too similar* to our modern language... :)
>
> On to the students' mistakes:
>
> Various mistakes with endings were of course common, but that's
> really just a matter of practice. Lesson 2 introduced a horde of new
> endings and forms, with the active present tense verb conjugation
> coming all in one piece. A big bite to swallow, we know.
>
> However, the most common mistake was one of syntax. We did not
> clearly explain the existing rules of word order in lesson 2. We now
> see that we must do so.
>
> In all Germanic languages, including ON and MI, but excluding
> English, there is a rule which says that "the main verb in the
> sentence must be either the first or the second word". They are
> therefore called "Verb-Second languages", or "V2 languages", in
> linguistic jargon (which may be ignored, if you like). Let me
> explain...
>
> First, we must realize what "sentence" really means, strictly
> speaking. We often think of sentences as sequences of words separated
> by punctuation, or "blurts of speech separated by pauses for breath"
> (?). In grammatic/linguistic terms, this is not accurate enough.
> Without going into details, let me say that they are not only
> separated by "pauses" (indicated by .:;?!() etc in our orthography),
> but also by the group of words we call 'conjunctions' (e.g. "and,
> but, then, as" etc). Consider this:
>
> "He went and took the book."
>
> Not one sentence, but two: "He went" (and) "[he] took the book".
> Consider that we even have an orthographic sign for the
> conjunction "and": &. It's not common practice, but "He went & took
> the book." wouldn't be illogical at all. Some more examples of two
> sentences commonly perceived as one:
>
> "He sees that it's wrong." (separated by "that")
> "They looked but saw nothing." (separated by "but")
> "The dog came as the cat left." (separated by "as")
>
> Or even more sentences together:
>
> "They twitched, rose, and all up spoke."
>
> That's three sentences.
>
> Finding this confusing yet? Well, there's actually one very easy way
> to count sentences, and now is when it really get's relevant to our
> course: "The verbs are the key." That is to say, sentences are really
> just a bunch of nouns/pronouns/whatever, all revolving around one big
> VERB, the sun in the whole sentence system. A sentence must have a
> verb, though it need not have anything else. Or rather, it needs to
> have something else, but that something may as well be *implied* from
> the context of surrounding sentences. Consider:
>
> "He fumbled, then fell, and gave up a yell."
>
> The first sentences introduces the subject, "he". The next sentence
> is "fell," ("then" isn't within a sentence, it's just connecting
> them); what's the subject there? Well, "he" again, only implied from
> the preceding sentence. Obvious? Indeed :)
>
> But some sentences have more than one "verb"! Consider:
>
> "I want to go."
> "I'm going."
>
> Some genius might now say, "hey, that's two sentences, man."
> Something like "I want" to "[I] go" and "I am" + "(?) going"(???) .
>
> Doesn't make sense. The thing is, participles ("going") and
> infinitives "[to] go" *don't count*.
>
> There's nothing arbitrary about it; it's quite logical, you see.
> Because participles and infinitives are like a transition stage
> between verbs and nouns/adjectives. Infinitive, for example,
> describes the action itself in a "universal", "infinite" sense (hence
> the term); it doesn't decline or anything, but as far as syntax is
> concerned, it might as well be a noun.
>
> This means that
>
> "I saw a flying, shrieking, wood-pecking bird!"
>
> is one sentence (with "saw" as the main verb). As would
>
> "To live or die, fighting in spite, is of no matter to the wise old
> man."
>
> be just one sentence (though at this point I'd think some experts
> might disagree; I'm not much into the various schools of syntax, but
> according to the system described above, which is a useful point of
> view, this would be just one sentence). "Is" is the main verb there.
>
> So where does that leave us? Well, it means that, re-introducing a
> phrase from above, "the main verb in the sentence must be either the
> first or the second word", the term "main verb" would mean all verbs
> that are conjugated (for practical purposes). So when counting
> sentences, look for verbs that conjugate; and when finding the main
> verb in a Germanic sentence, look for the verb that conjugates.
>
> This brings me (finally) back to ON; lesson 2 included a sentence
> something like this:
>
> "Now Eiríkr sees Óláfr."
>
> Most, if not all, students who sent us solutions translated that as
>
> * "Nú Eiríkr sér Óláf."
>
> But that sounds very wrong to speakers of V2 languages. Allow me a
> little digression to German (for the German students here, otherwise
> you may skip this):
>
> "Jetzt sieht der Erik den Olaf."
> ("Now sees Eric Olaf")
>
> German is V2. German-speakers made the mistake too, but I think it
> was because they were translating from English, instead of German.
>
> So, the main verb here is the one which conjugates, "sees" (the only
> verb anyway); it *must* be the first or the second word. It has
> priority. Therefore, poor Eric must step away and let the verb come
> first:
>
> "Nú sér Eiríkr Óláf."
>
> By now, you may be wondering if there're any further rules on whether
> the verb should be the first or the second word. Alas, that's a
> matter of taste, or at least in ON it is (in MI, putting the verb
> first sets up a question). The verb is normally the second word; you
> may safely put it always in that position. But sometimes it's the
> first one, as in the recurring line in Völuspá:
>
> "Geyr nú garmr mjök."
> ("barks now doggie much.")
>
> Verið öll heil ok sæl,
> Óskar
>
>
>
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