Re: Gorgyra and Tartaros - g/t dialectal Pre-Greek

korkorugmos remembers onomatopoeic verbs like Portuguese gargalhar "to laugh loudly" and gargarejar "to gargle"

JS Lopes

De: Stewart Felker <stewart.felker@...>
Para: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
Enviadas: Terça-feira, 19 de Março de 2013 23:44
Assunto: Re: [tied] Re: Gorgyra and Tartaros - g/t dialectal Pre-Greek

I don't have a whole lot to add, other than that Beekes has, for gorgura/korchurea, 'underground/subterranean drain'. Could this possibly be connected to borboros 'mire, filth' (cf. also Hittite mirmirrus)? For borboros, Beekes writes that a "connection with Arm. kork 'dirt', which require a reconstruction *gʷorgʷ(or)o- remains very doubtful" (227).

However...there's also korkorugeō 'to fill with noise, storm, trouble' (korkorugmos, 'rumbling in the belly') and borboruzō 'to rumble' - perhap showing the same type of interchange. Even further, Beekes notes that borboruzō is "[c]onnected with borboros, though partly different in meaning (developments like these are not infrequently found in onomatopoeic words). In borborizei, the two meanings come together."

Stewart Felker
University of Memphis

On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 7:13 PM, Joao S. Lopes <josimo70@...> wrote:

What would the possible meanings for Tartaros? It could mean "bottom", "underworld", "dark, shadowy, misty place", "cold or boggy or moldy place", "land of the dead", "West", "Night", "Evening, Dusk", "prision". Tartaros in Theogony may be an entity (akin to Khaos, Gaia and Eros), or just a place : "the deathless ones who hold the peaks of snowy Olympus, and dim Tartarus in the depth of the wide-pathed Earth". I think Theogony's scheme is nicely symmetric:
Gaia = The flat earth
Ouranos = Celestial dome
Aither = Bright atmosphere
Pontos = Primordial Sea (= Vedic Milky Sea ?)
Erebos = Underworld Darkness
Tartaros = The Bottom, opposite to Sky
Okeanos = The Snake-River around the Earth ( = Midgard Serpent? Vasuki?)

JS Lopes

De: Bhrihskwobhloukstroy <bhrihstlobhrouzghdhroy@...>
Para: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
Enviadas: Terça-feira, 19 de Março de 2013 19:56
Assunto: Re: [tied] Re: Gorgyra and Tartaros - g/t dialectal Pre-Greek

I still prefer *ger-g- 'turn' (Pokorny 1959: 385) for gorgyra (which
means "inferior part of a tile" as well) < *gorg-urah2/4 (same root of
gargathos) and *terh2- 'pass through' (Pokorny 1074-1075) for Tartaros
< *tr-trh2-o-s (same root of tra:n'e:s)

2013/3/19, Joao S. <josimo70@...>:
> I was going to ask this, but I googled it and found my own question from two
> years ago. Any comments?
>
> JS Lopes
>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Joao S. Lopes" <josimo70@...> wrote:
>>
>> Considering tha apparent similarity bewteen Tartaros "hell, subterraneous
>>
>> prison" and gorgyra "subterraneous chamber, prison", could we try to
>> postulate a
>> corresponde G-T in two dialectal forms of Pre-Greek?
>> Note that Gorgyra/Tartaros pair could be analogous to Gigas/Titan.
>> gorgyra < *gargura < g^arg^ura < *j^arj^ura- ~ *c^arc^aro- > *t^art^aro >
>>
>> tartaros
>>
>>
>> JS Lopes
>>
>
>
>