Re: Portuguese, Spanish bode "buck"

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Bhrihskwobhloukstroy
<bhrihstlobhrouzghdhroy@...> wrote:

>
> *Bhr.: Let's take German Butze at its face value: /tts/ (< Germanic
> */tt/) in order to explain Ibero-Romance /d/ < either /dd/ or lenited
> /t/; now, everyone realizes that the distance between Ibero-Romance
> /d/ and German /tts/ isn't greater than the one between Ibero-Romance
> /d/ and *bHe:mtts^y: if we add that Castilian-Portuguese /o/ (neither
> from /au/ nor from short /o/) is closer to German /u/ than to */e:/,
> we necessarily conclude that, however "convoluted" an etymology from
> PIE *bhud'nis can be, it's less so than one from *bHe:mtts^y
>
> > I'm afraid yours isn't a fair comparison, because you apparently

forgot

> > the IE and the Altaic words with /o, u/ I quoted before.
> > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/71115
>
> *Bhr.: If You mean "Turkic *bugu(ra) 'male deer; camel stallion',
> Mongolian *bojir 'male elk', Tungusic *pegu(le)-/*pogu(le)- 'young of
> elk, elk' (...) besides Indo-Iranian and Armenian *bug�-,
> Germanic and Celtic *bukko-, (...) Italic becco 'male goat' and Basque

behi 'cow'",

> then You are making Your etymology still more "phonetically
> convoluted", provided You can an explanation, if all, for the velars
> as apposed to Ibero-Romance /d/
>
> > I suppose you read my explanation about NEC lateral affricates and

their

> > differengt mappings, didn't you?
>
> *Bhr.: of course I did - what I can't understand is why do You think
> it is less "convoluted" than a correspondence *dn : dd
>

But this is Kluge's Law, which doesn't apply to Celtic. As you suggested
a Celtic origin (despite having no evidence in historical Celtic
languages) this invalidates your argument.

> > Anyway, you demonstrated your proposed IE etymology and this word
> > arehomonymous in German.
>
> *Bhr.: therefore semantically no more misfit
>
> > Not really, because your etymology works for the wrong word, i.e.
> > Bavarian butz, not German Butz 'little lamb'.
>
> *Bhr.: They are the same word
>
> > I don't think so.
>
> *Bhr.: please explain that
>

They're semantically unrelated, thus *homonymous*.

> > Besides Spanish boto/a 'blunt; clumsy, akward' there's also Occitan
> > (Langedocian) boda 'paquet rebondi; gros ventre; grosseur; tumeur'.
>
> *Bhr.: very good and a plausible etymology indeed, but do You really
> believe that 'gros ventre' is closer than 'Lämmchen' to 'buck'?
>
> > No. They're two different etymologies. One refers to 'thick, clumsy,
> > etc.' and the other to a domestic animal, 'lamb, male goat, ox'.
>
> *Bhr.: I've mentioned three lexemes, You write "they're two different
> etymologies"; which two?
>

One is Bavarian butz, German Butt (< Low German) plus Spanish boto,
Occitan boda, and the other is German Butz plus Romance bode.