From: dgkilday57
Message: 70925
Date: 2013-02-12
>In my opinion the /kk/-forms (including Epidaurian _ikkos_ 'horse' and Mycenaean _i-qo_ [(h)ikkWos]) are borrowed from Balkan Illyrian, while _hippos_ is a more recent borrowing from Macedonian. In the Illyro-Lusitanian group we have *-k(^)W- > *-kkW-, and specifically *h1ek^Wo- > *(h)ikkWo-, hence Lus. _Iccona_ = Gaul. _Epona_ 'goddess associated with horses'. Paeonian _Lukpeio_ (gen. sg. on coins, -o = class. Grk. graphy -ou) shows the intermediate stage between *-kkW- and *-pp- in the P-type of these languages; the base is of course Ill.-Lus. *lukkWo- 'wolf'.
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "stlatos" wrote:
>
> > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "dgkilday57" wrote:
>
> > > In my view OE _feolufer_, _filfor_ etc. 'type of marine bird' has nothing to do with ML _porphyrio_, but is based on the disyllabic root for 'ceremonial axe' *pelekW- and formed on the same basis as 'pelican', based on the shape of the bird's bill. This is an example of the labial being more than one syllable away.
> > >
> > Most rec. *pelekYu-, so you'd need to explain more. For me, in:
> >
> > pélekus (m) = (double-edged) ax G; paraçú- (m) = hatchet/ax RV, párçu- (m) = rib/curved knife/sickle AV S; ? >> paRak = rib/side Ar;
> >
> > shows an In-Ir * paracYú \ parakWú >> paRak = rib/side Ar;
> >
> > which makes older kWxY likely (since most words, if any ev. points either way, show -xYu not -u and show -txYu not -tu (including -i / -u alt.)).
> >
> > Many other forms and related words make it even more complex.
> >
> Also, as in:
>
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/49945
>
> >> [Nath Rao]
> > Also, what is the current view on -k'u- > Greek -pp-? According to
> > Sihler, the horse word is the only secure example. Any phonological
> > reasons for this difference?
> [Piotr]
> Preservation of the original segment count/syllable structure? I know no
> independent examples of -kk-/-pp- in Greek, but -kk- for *-k(^)w- can be
> supported with lákkos 'pond' < *lakw-o- and pélekkos 'axe-shaft',
> pelekkáo: 'cut with an axe', both reflecting *pelek(^)w-, cf. pélekus
> 'axe' < pre-Gk. *pelek^u- (Skt. paras'u-).
> >>
> a simple original kW wouldn't seem to explain -kk- here, making a cluster necessary. It would also keep kWr from being the original (my -ir- < -imYxY- , etc.), though that might not matter for you depending on when opt. -i- > 0 in Gmc.Getting ahead of myself (to be covered under 'finger'), I no longer consider OE _feolufer_ to exhibit Gmc. labialization, because the reflex of *k^w (effectively a labiovelar in the centum group) would not have been occluded here, just as it is not in 'finger'. Instead, I consider it a pre-Grimm's Law loan from Gaulish, with *pelekWu- regularly undergoing Italo-Celtic assimilation to *kWelekWu-, then labialization to P-Celtic *pelepu- (with the *-ro-derivative following suit). Thus _feolufer_ is no longer relevant to the topic at hand.
> Others might be:Ornate ceremonial axes functioned as currency in northern Europe, so this might explain the unit of measure, and the similarity of such an axe to a bag is good for my view on the semantics of 'pelican' and _feolufer_ itself (though doubted by Joao).
>
> péleku (nu) = *stone > weight of 10 min, pélekus (m) = (double-edged) ax / bag in a children's game G;
> vs
> baluqa = stone in a game Bur;
>