From: Bhrihskwobhloukstroy
Message: 70867
Date: 2013-02-01
> Xouthos and Xanthos are synomys and clearly doublets.There's no PIE syllabe
> that explain a double -ou- and -an-, making me guess a proto-form *Xonthos.
> Before -s-, *on- > -ou- (cf. *odonts > *odons> odous), but not before -th.
> If we try to find a PIE etymology for <xanthos>, we's try *ksandHo-, while
> xouthos <*ksoudHo-, *ksoXedHo, *ksoXodHo-, where "X" is any dropped stop
> ('-F-,-y-,-s-). That's why it couldn't be a regular IE>"regular" Greek
> development, whilst it may be dialectal or from another IE language.
>
> JS Lopes
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> De: Bhrihskwobhloukstroy <bhrihstlobhrouzghdhroy@...>
> Para: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
> Enviadas: Quinta-feira, 31 de Janeiro de 2013 15:11
> Assunto: Re: [tied] On Greek anthro:pos 'man'
>
>
>
> I still have serious difficulties to understand why "Xanthos/Xouthos display
> a non-IE doublet": I agree they display - if related, which isn't assured -
> a non-Greek doublet, but this is entirely different from a non-IE one, and
> the difference is quite crucial (unless one knows a non-IE language where
> both lexemes, xanthos and zouthos, are attested)
>
>
> 2013/1/31 Joao S. Lopes <josimo70@...>
>
>
>>
>>Yes, I agree, it's just an attempt to find any clue. Xanthos/Xouthos
>> display a non-IE doublet. If Xanthos is "Pre-Greek", to find a doublet
>> anthropos/*outhropos would point the same dialectal origin.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>________________________________
>> De: Bhrihskwobhloukstroy <bhrihstlobhrouzghdhroy@...>
>>Para: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
>>Enviadas: Quinta-feira, 31 de Janeiro de 2013 14:52
>>
>>Assunto: Re: [tied] On Greek anthro:pos 'man'
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Yes, of course; my question could be understood in this perspective: while
>> /sk-/ is unexpected in some phonotactic environments in English (whence
>> the welcome solution of a Scandinavian origin, from independently well
>> attested languages), /-anthr-/ doesn't show any non-Greek outcome, does
>> it?
>>
>>
>>2013/1/31 Joao S. Lopes <josimo70@...>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>As I said, it's just a speculation, a vague possibility, a sugestion. For
>>> example, in ENglish many words with initial sk- have Scandinavian origin.
>>> Many Greek etnomyms has the -ops suffix, Dolopes, Dryopes, *Pelopes, that
>>> could be the same as -o:p- in anthro:pos.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>JS Lopes
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>________________________________
>>> De: Bhrihskwobhloukstroy <bhrihstlobhrouzghdhroy@...>
>>>Para: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
>>>Enviadas: Quinta-feira, 31 de Janeiro de 2013 14:22
>>>
>>>Assunto: Re: [tied] On Greek anthro:pos 'man'
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Is there anything particular in the sequence -anth(r)- as to suggest a
>>> separate dialectal origin?
>>>
>>>
>>>2013/1/31 Joao S. Lopes <josimo70@...>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>I didn't say it! I didn't mean to explain panther and xanthos as cognates
>>>> of anthropos. I've just included it as examples of word that could have
>>>> the same dialectal origin. And I pointed the doublet -anth-/-outh- in
>>>> xanthos/xouthos as a vague possibility for looking for dialectals
>>>> variations of anthropos.
>>>>
>>>>JS Lopes
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>________________________________
>>>> De: Bhrihskwobhloukstroy <bhrihstlobhrouzghdhroy@...>
>>>>Para: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
>>>>Enviadas: Quinta-feira, 31 de Janeiro de 2013 13:43
>>>>
>>>>Assunto: Re: [tied] On Greek anthro:pos 'man'
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I fail to imagine how one could explain /p-/ in panthe:r, /ks-/ in
>>>> xanthos, /k-/ in kanthos etc.; as for *outhro:pos, good luck! Surely
>>>> You'll find it
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>2013/1/31 Joao S. Lopes <josimo70@...>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I picked a bunch of words with same sequence (-anth-), maybe some of
>>>>> them have the same origin as word anthro:pos:
>>>>>kantharos "beetle", panthe:r "leopard", xanthos "yellow, brown" (=
>>>>> xouthos), kanthos "eye's corner, akanthos "spine, thorn" It's
>>>>> interesting the alternation xanthos/xouthos, that doesn't seem IE
>>>>> (xouthos < *xonthos?). If we find a doublet *outhro:pos for anthro:pos?
>>>>> With -inth- there's minthos and plinthos. Kantharos akin to Skt gandha-
>>>>> "smell", in a sense of stinky insect?
>>>>>JS Lopes
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>________________________________
>>>>> De: Bhrihskwobhloukstroy <bhrihstlobhrouzghdhroy@...>
>>>>>Para: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
>>>>>Enviadas: Quarta-feira, 30 de Janeiro de 2013 18:39
>>>>>
>>>>>Assunto: Re: [tied] On Greek anthro:pos 'man'
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>The people as against the Hero, pho:s
>>>>>
>>>>>2013/1/30, Joao S. Lopes josimo70@...>:
>>>>>> why man = looking dark?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> JS Lopes
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>> De: Piotr Gasiorowski gpiotr@...>
>>>>>> Para: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
>>>>>> Enviadas: Quarta-feira, 30 de Janeiro de 2013 11:13
>>>>>> Assunto: Re: [tied] On Greek anthro:pos 'man'
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> W dniu 2013-01-30 12:39, Bhrihskwobhloukstroy pisze:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2. None of them: long /o:/ continues two or three PIE phonemes from
>>>>>>> two different PIE morphemes,
>>>>>>> *h2andhro- + *h3(o(:))kw-s (*h3kw- or *h3okw- or *h3o:kw- depends on
>>>>>>> ablaut *in the position of final member of a compound*)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's normally *-h3kW-o- in thematic formations. See *próti-h3kW-o-m
>>>>>> 'face, front' > Skt. práti:ka- 'surface, face', Toch.B pratsa:ko
>>>>>> 'chest', Gk. coll. próso:pe:. The long vowel in Tocharian and Greek
>>>>>> comes from laryngeal breaking. See also *h2anti-h3kW-o- > Lat.
>>>>>> anti:quus/anti:cus, Gmc. adjective-forming *-i:G-a- < *-i-h3kW-o-,
>>>>>> etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Piotr
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
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