Re: On Greek anthro:pos 'man'

From: Bhrihskwobhloukstroy
Message: 70867
Date: 2013-02-01

That xanth'os ad xouth'os aren't synonyms we know from Hesychius'
gloss "xouth'a: ou m'onon xanth'a, all'a ka'i leuk'a ka'i pyrrh'a";
xouth'os can be uaria lectio of xanth'os and uice uersa, but the statu
of uaria lectio never necessarily implies etymological connection.
Your conclusion "it may be dialectal or from another IE language" very
aptly rules out the only logical ground for the alleged
non-Indo-Europeanness of the word (and nevertheless it *may* like
anything else, but both adjectives may also be of Greek origin). A
purely phonological way for a by no way necessary root connection can
be *Ks-o- (K = any palatal or valer plosive) + *h2andH-o- vs. *XodH-o-
(in Your symbolism) or *Ks-h2n- vs. *Ks-ou- + *dHh1-o-

2013/2/1, Joao S. Lopes <josimo70@...>:
> Xouthos and Xanthos are synomys and clearly doublets.There's no PIE syllabe
> that explain a double -ou- and -an-, making me guess a proto-form *Xonthos.
> Before -s-, *on- > -ou- (cf. *odonts > *odons> odous), but not before -th.
> If we try to find a PIE etymology for <xanthos>, we's try *ksandHo-, while
> xouthos <*ksoudHo-, *ksoXedHo, *ksoXodHo-, where "X" is any dropped stop
> ('-F-,-y-,-s-). That's why it couldn't be a regular IE>"regular" Greek
> development, whilst it may be dialectal or from another IE language.
>
> JS Lopes
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> De: Bhrihskwobhloukstroy <bhrihstlobhrouzghdhroy@...>
> Para: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
> Enviadas: Quinta-feira, 31 de Janeiro de 2013 15:11
> Assunto: Re: [tied] On Greek anthro:pos 'man'
>
>
>
> I still have serious difficulties to understand why "Xanthos/Xouthos display
> a non-IE doublet": I agree they display - if related, which isn't assured -
> a non-Greek doublet, but this is entirely different from a non-IE one, and
> the difference is quite crucial (unless one knows a non-IE language where
> both lexemes, xanthos and zouthos, are attested)
>
>
> 2013/1/31 Joao S. Lopes <josimo70@...>
>
>
>>
>>Yes, I agree, it's just an attempt to find any clue. Xanthos/Xouthos
>> display a non-IE doublet. If Xanthos is "Pre-Greek", to find a doublet
>> anthropos/*outhropos would point the same dialectal origin.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>________________________________
>> De: Bhrihskwobhloukstroy <bhrihstlobhrouzghdhroy@...>
>>Para: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
>>Enviadas: Quinta-feira, 31 de Janeiro de 2013 14:52
>>
>>Assunto: Re: [tied] On Greek anthro:pos 'man'
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Yes, of course; my question could be understood in this perspective: while
>> /sk-/ is unexpected in some phonotactic environments in English (whence
>> the welcome solution of a Scandinavian origin, from independently well
>> attested languages), /-anthr-/ doesn't show any non-Greek outcome, does
>> it?
>>
>>
>>2013/1/31 Joao S. Lopes <josimo70@...>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>As I said, it's just a speculation, a vague possibility, a sugestion. For
>>> example, in ENglish many words with initial sk- have Scandinavian origin.
>>> Many Greek etnomyms has the -ops suffix, Dolopes, Dryopes, *Pelopes, that
>>> could be the same as -o:p- in anthro:pos.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>JS Lopes
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>________________________________
>>> De: Bhrihskwobhloukstroy <bhrihstlobhrouzghdhroy@...>
>>>Para: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
>>>Enviadas: Quinta-feira, 31 de Janeiro de 2013 14:22
>>>
>>>Assunto: Re: [tied] On Greek anthro:pos 'man'
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Is there anything particular in the sequence -anth(r)- as to suggest a
>>> separate dialectal origin?
>>>
>>>
>>>2013/1/31 Joao S. Lopes <josimo70@...>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>I didn't say it! I didn't mean to explain panther and xanthos as cognates
>>>> of anthropos. I've just included it as examples of word that could have
>>>> the same dialectal origin. And I pointed the doublet -anth-/-outh-  in
>>>> xanthos/xouthos as a vague possibility for looking for dialectals
>>>> variations of anthropos.
>>>>
>>>>JS Lopes
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>________________________________
>>>> De: Bhrihskwobhloukstroy <bhrihstlobhrouzghdhroy@...>
>>>>Para: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
>>>>Enviadas: Quinta-feira, 31 de Janeiro de 2013 13:43
>>>>
>>>>Assunto: Re: [tied] On Greek anthro:pos 'man'
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I fail to imagine how one could explain /p-/ in panthe:r, /ks-/ in
>>>> xanthos, /k-/ in kanthos etc.; as for *outhro:pos, good luck! Surely
>>>> You'll find it
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>2013/1/31 Joao S. Lopes <josimo70@...>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I picked a bunch of words with same sequence (-anth-), maybe some of
>>>>> them have the same origin as word anthro:pos:
>>>>>kantharos "beetle", panthe:r "leopard", xanthos "yellow, brown" (=
>>>>> xouthos), kanthos "eye's corner, akanthos "spine, thorn" It's
>>>>> interesting the alternation xanthos/xouthos, that doesn't seem IE
>>>>> (xouthos < *xonthos?). If we find a doublet *outhro:pos for anthro:pos?
>>>>> With -inth- there's minthos and plinthos. Kantharos akin to Skt gandha-
>>>>> "smell", in a sense of stinky insect?
>>>>>JS Lopes
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>________________________________
>>>>> De: Bhrihskwobhloukstroy <bhrihstlobhrouzghdhroy@...>
>>>>>Para: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
>>>>>Enviadas: Quarta-feira, 30 de Janeiro de 2013 18:39
>>>>>
>>>>>Assunto: Re: [tied] On Greek anthro:pos 'man'
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>The people as against the Hero, pho:s
>>>>>
>>>>>2013/1/30, Joao S. Lopes josimo70@...>:
>>>>>> why man = looking dark?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> JS Lopes
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>> De: Piotr Gasiorowski gpiotr@...>
>>>>>> Para: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
>>>>>> Enviadas: Quarta-feira, 30 de Janeiro de 2013 11:13
>>>>>> Assunto: Re: [tied] On Greek anthro:pos 'man'
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> W dniu 2013-01-30 12:39, Bhrihskwobhloukstroy pisze:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2. None of them: long /o:/ continues two or three PIE phonemes from
>>>>>>> two different PIE morphemes,
>>>>>>> *h2andhro- + *h3(o(:))kw-s (*h3kw- or *h3okw- or *h3o:kw- depends on
>>>>>>> ablaut *in the position of final member of a compound*)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's normally *-h3kW-o- in thematic formations. See *próti-h3kW-o-m
>>>>>> 'face, front' > Skt. práti:ka- 'surface, face', Toch.B pratsa:ko
>>>>>> 'chest', Gk. coll. próso:pe:. The long vowel in Tocharian and Greek
>>>>>> comes from laryngeal breaking. See also *h2anti-h3kW-o- > Lat.
>>>>>> anti:quus/anti:cus, Gmc. adjective-forming *-i:G-a- < *-i-h3kW-o-,
>>>>>> etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Piotr
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
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