From: dgkilday57
Message: 70238
Date: 2012-10-23
>Yes, as an Iberian loanword (of IE origin if I understand you), although we lack independent evidence that Salduba meant 'Horsetown'.
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "dgkilday57" <dgkilday57@> wrote:
> >
> > No mention of the Berber word.
> >
> I've already answered to that in my own list.
> > If Bq. oilo 'chicken' comes from *boilo < pollo with "regular lossBut all your examples involve Latin/Romance f-, not p-, so this single word <oilo> requires an ad-hoc assumption. That is why I prefer to see a borrowing from the Gaulish equivalent of <pullus>.
> of /b/ before /o/"
> >
> I suppose in that context the labial stop was lenied to a voiceless
> fricative /F/ (IPA "phi"), which later disappeared. It also occurs
> before /u/ in words such as furca > urka, fulano > ulain (actually,
> this is the situation in Iberian). Compare the Asturian anthroponym
> Ordoño and the Spanish surname Ortuño < Fortu:nius. As a matter
> of fact, labiodental /f/ is realized as [F] in many parts of Northern
> Spain, something which would explain its (conditioned) aspiration as
> /h/ in Gascon and in most varieties of Spanish (but lost in the std
> variety).
> > (presumably used to explain on 'good' from Romance bono),I see no reason to equate these onomastic elements with each other, or with Bq. <on>. The Aquitanian name I had in mind is <Cison>. If memory serves, Narbonese inscc. in Greek letters attest <Kiso:n> and <Giso:n>. Vasco-Iberian material here is not a problem since we have <Illiberis> with the same late Ligurian gemination of a short first syllable (out of three or more) observed in <Addua>, <Appenni:nus>, and probably <attilus>.
> >
> Most Vascologists agree in considering Basque on a native word, as it's
> attested in Aquitanian inscriptions as BON-, HON-, -PON.
> > why is there Bq. borondate from Lat. (acc.) volunta:tem?Obviously I have nothing against "submerged languages" (i.e. substrates), but <borondate> is not some oddity in Basque. Its importance in ordinary speech suggests that it was adapted directly from Latin by bilingual speakers.
> >
> Because this word was borrowed from a non-Basque Pyrenaic language
> which kept the labial stop, as in pullus > pullo (L, LN, Z), pollo (Z),
> pollu (Z) 'donkey', also with variants where Latin -ll- is rendered
> into a palatal stop /c/ <tt>: potto (Bazt), pottoko (Bazt) 'colt, young
> horse', pottoka (L, LN) 'mare'.
>
> This submerged Pyrenaic language, whose remains can be found in the
> Aragonese and Bearnese Romances, as well as in Basque itself, has been
> studied by linguists such as Elcock and García de Diego.
> > I prefer to consider on 'good' ancient,I would expect an initial affricate or sibilant in Basque, not anaptyxis, and such borrowing still fails to explain the combining form <giza->, which I regard as the original unmarked 'man', not 'good man', though semantic devaluation has erased this distinction, as with <gentleman>, <caballero>, etc. The discrepancy between <Kiso:n> and <Giso:n> (I suspect long /i:/, but Greek does not mark it) can be attributed to ancient Basque distinguishing fortis against lenis, not recognizing voicing or aspiration per se as distinctive features. The initial consonant in question was lenis. Two lenes produced a fortis (as in apais < abbas, zapatu < sabbatum) which is hard to reconcile with any theoretical view failing to regard consonant strength as the primary feature.
> >
> See above.
>
> > and gizon 'man' (against giza-), which occurs in Aquitanian
> onomastics, to be originally 'good man, bonhomme'.
> >
> IMHO Basque gizon is a loanword from Celtic *gdonjo- 'man', most likely
> from Gaulish.