Re: A Semitic etymology for Odisseus?

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Peter Whale <prw.peter.whale@...> wrote:

>
> On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 3:01 PM, Torsten <tgpedersen@...> wrote:
>
> > **
> > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Peter Whale <prw.peter.whale@> wrote:
> > >
> > > The variations you speak off are known in other words as well, and
> > > they may simply be dialectal or other variants. It is wrong to say
> > > that they compel us to see a foreign origin. Alternation of d and
> > > l, for example, is seen in the "tear" word, dakruma / lacruma, the
> > > "smell" word olor/odor, and a few others. Within a Latin context,
> > > the patterns fits dialect borrowing.
> >
> > Which Latin dialects did you have in mind
> >
>
> Sabine, for example. Yes, evidence is slight, but the pattern is right for
> dialect variation.
>

Sabine was a P-Italic language, probably closely related to South Picene. Latin lexical evidence does point to a "Sabino-Latin" dialect, Latin as spoken by the Sabine community, for such words as <lachrima> and <le:vir>, but this cannot explain <Ulixe:s>.

> >
> > > The same is true of Odysseus / Ulysses.
> >
> > Odysseus being Greek and 'Ulysses' Latin, dialects of which language did
> > you have in mind?
> >
>
> Greek. Latin picked up the name from a western Dialect. We know it in the
> form it has in eastern dialects, especially Attic-Ionic.

Etruscan <Utuse>, <Utuste>, etc. show that at least some western dialects had -d-. Siceliot Greek <Oulixe:s> appears to have come from Latin <Ulixe:s> rather than the other way round.

Attic vase-inscriptions have <Olutteus>. The Attic literary form <Odusseus> is Ionic, due to the prestige of the epics. This contrast between closely related Greek dialects is a good indication that the name comes from Pre-Greek substrate. The Pre-Greek language had a much longer time to differentiate into its own dialects than the speech of the Greek newcomers. Similar contrasts are found with words for 'lead', 'laurel', 'labyrinth', and a few others.

DGK