Re: The reason for Caesar's obtaining the two Gauls as province

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "dgkilday57" <dgkilday57@...> wrote:

>
>
>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Torsten" <tgpedersen@> wrote:
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > Ernout-Meillet:
> > 'callis, -is c.(le genre est flottant comme pour beaucoup de noms
> > en -is): piste de troupeau, sentier tracé par les animaux;
> > différent à l'origine de se:mita, cf.
> > Vg., Ae. 9,383, rara per occultos lucebat semita calles;
> > Serv. Ae. 4,405; Isid., Diff.1,539; Orig. 15,16,10.
> > Puis toute espèce de sentier ou de route. -
> > Ancien, technique. M.L.1520.
> > Faussement rapproché de callum, callus "ā callō pedum" par les
> > anciens.
> > Dérivé: callitānus (inscr.).
> > Il est vain de rapprocher
> > irl. caill "forêt",
> > lit. ke~lias "chemin", ´
> > serbe klánac "défilé",
> > trop éloignés, les uns par la forme, les autres par le sens.'
>
> I see no reason to discard the connection between <callis> and
> <callum>, even if "les anciens" were off the mark in their details.
> A path has a hard surface from the trampling of humans and cattle,
> and a blister also has a hard surface.

As I said.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/68615

> > Pokorny:
> > 'kalni- "enger Durchgang, enger Pfad"?
> > Lat. callis "Bergpfad, Waldweg, Gebirgstrift';
> > bulgar. klánik "Raum zwischen Herd und Wand",
> > serb. klánac, Gen. klánca "Engpaß",
> > sloven. klánəc "Hohlweg, Gebirgsweg, Rinnsal eines Baches,
> > Dorfgasse",
> > čech. klanec "Bergsattel, Paß".
> > WP. I 356 f., WH. I 140 f.'
>
> Latin <callis> goes better under Pokorny's *kal-(1) 'hart',
> IEW 523-4. I suspect that the original root was verbal, probably
> *keh2l- 'to harden the surface of'. The original meaning is well
> preserved in Slavic, e.g. Czech <kaliti> 'to temper, case-harden'.
> Russian <kalitI> 'to heat, roast' suggests an intermediate Old Russ.
> sense 'to toast, harden the surface of (a piece of bread)'.

Semantically similar to the 'sharp' root.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/62531

BTW enjoy:
UEW:
'kalke 1 'hart' FW [Finno-Volgaic]
Finn. kalki (Gen. kaljen)
1. 'strävt, hårt föremål; rauher, harter Gegenstand',
2. 'vanlottad person, vanlottad, olycklig; stiefmütterlich behandelte Person, stiefmütterlich behandelt, unglücklich',
(SKES dial.) kalkea, kalkkea 'suuri, järeä; pirteä, reipas; kova, kuuluva (ääni); groß, grob; munter, frisch; hart, hörbar (Laut)';
est. (dial.) kalk (Gen. kalgi) 'ein zerlumptes, schlecht gekleidetes Kind',
(SKES) kalk (Gen. kalgi), kalg (Gen. kalje, kale) 'kova, kylmäkiskoinen; liian kova, hauras (rauta); hart, kalt, kühl, zu hart, zerbrechlich, brüchig (Eisen)' |
mord. (Paas. : MSFOu. 22:87, 109) E kalgodo, kalgudo, M kalguda 'hart'.

Mord. do und da sind Ableitungssuffixe. Anderson, Stud. 289; SKES.'

Note the variant gen. kale

> Lat. <callum> and <callis> in this view continue zero-grade
> formations *k&2l-no'-, *k&2l-ni'-. From the same stem are Welsh
> <caill>, Breton <kell> 'testicle' (cf. English slang <rocks>).
> Gaulish *caljo-, *calja:wo- 'stone' vel sim. are reflected in French
> <chaille> 'concretion, flint' and <caillou> 'pebble' (from a
> non-/ka/-fronting dialect).

UEW:
'kaľkkз 'Ei; Hoden' FP
??[Finn. (SKES) kalkku (Pl. kalkut) 'mulkku, kives; Hoden';
kar. (Gen.: Suomi 1881:88) kalkku (Pl. kalkut)] |
?? syrj. S P koľk, PO kuľk 'Ei (S P PO); Hoden (P)'.

Finn. u ist ein Substantivsuffix.

Die Zusammenstellung ist nur dann akzeptabel, wenn das syrj. auslautende k die Fortsetzung von *kk in *ľkk ist. Möglicherweise gehört das syrj. Wort mit wotj. S Uf. keľan und syrj. Lu. P keľ 'Hoden' zusammen.

Lytkin (VokPerm. 46) und ESK stellen wotj. B kөľөk 'яйцo' hierher. Dieser Beleg ist aus anderen Quellen nicht bekannt; möglicherweise gehört er zu wotj. keľan und syrj. keľ 'Hoden'.'

> Matasovic', following Joseph, puts Proto-Celtic *kaleto- 'hard' (Old
> Irish <calath>, We. <caled>) with PIE *k^elh{x}- 'to freeze'
> (Avestan <sar@...> 'cold', Lithuanian <s^a'lti> 'to be cold,
> freeze'. I think however that Pokorny was correct to place *kaleto-
> under *kal- 'hard'. It can represent a secondary participle built
> to the zero-grade stem of *keh2l-, namely *k&2l-eto-.
>
> > The geographical distribution points to an original Venetic word.
> Suetonius' 'silvae callesque' seems to point to some connection with
> "forest", pace Ernout-Meillet.
>
> Modern Venetian has <cale>, the expected reflex of Lat. <callem>. I
> see no good reason to regard <callis> as other than inherited.

How do you explain the Finno-Volgaic forms?

The reason I see for thinking this word is local is sociological. The calles were in the beginning the roads leading from Aquileia, later any mountain path, or just path in general.


Torsten