From: Bhrihskwobhloukstroy
Message: 68616
Date: 2012-02-28
>
>
>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "guestu5er" <guestuser.0x9357@...> wrote:
>>
>> >Pokorny:
>> >'kalni- "enger Durchgang, enger Pfad"?
>> >Lat. callis "Bergpfad, Waldweg, Gebirgstrift';
>>
>> Lewis & Short: callis "a stony footway, foot-path, mountain-path,
>> pass, defile"
>>
>> >bulgar. klánik "Raum zwischen Herd und Wand",
>> >serb. klánac, Gen. klánca "Engpaß",
>>
>> And Bg./Sb. kolnik. (Its Romanian variant is spelled colnic, with
>> senses that makes it akin to Lat. collina, -ae < collinus, Fr.
>> colline, Ital. collina.)
>>
>> (Seemingly only this South-Slavic word is a bit closer to callis,
>> callem - all the others are of a KLAN- + -NIK, -NETZ kind.)
>
> That's not a problem.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_metathesis
> As you can see, this rule would, given a loan before ca. 800 CE of exactly
> the 'kolnik-' you cite produce the Slavic forms cited by Ernout-Meillet.
>>
>> >sloven. klánəc "Hohlweg, Gebirgsweg, Rinnsal eines Baches,
>> >Dorfgasse",
>> >Ä ech. klanec "Bergsattel, Paß".
>> >WP. I 356 f., WH. I 140 f.'
>> >
>> >The geographical distribution points to an original Venetic word.
>> >Suetonius' 'silvae callesque' seems to point to some connection
>> >with "forest", pace Ernout-Meillet.
>>
>> An E-Eur. language that has it too is Romanian (= Vlach/Walachian):
>> cale (plural cäi [k&y]).
>>
>> It means not only a "Bergpfad, Waldweg", but also any kind of
>> "Pfad/path"; as well as "avenue" (and "way", incl. in the fig.
>> sense).
>>
>> e.g. Calea Laptelui "Milky Way"; din cale-afarä "unusual; odd;
>> very; utmost"; calea-valea [vale "valley"] "awright; schon gut";
>> cale feratä "railway; railroad"; cale respiratorie "part of the
>> breathing system"; dor de cale "Reiselust; -sehnsucht"; cale
>> bunä! "farewell! Gute Reise!"; cale de atac "(jur.) Anfechtungs-
>> möglichkeit"; pe cale administrativä "auf (der) Verwaltungsebene;
>> auf'm Dienstweg".
>>
>> Cale is phonetically close to cal (pl. cai [kay]) "horse" and
>> cälare "mounted". Hence a sentence like this can be concocted:
>> Cälare pe cal pe cale spre munte. ("On a horse's back on a
>> road/way/path to a mountain.")
>>
>> http://www.etimo.it/?term=calle&find=Cerca
>>
>> (Romanian was spoken in various places within your geographical
>> distribution for centuries, incl. by Istrorumanians, Mavrovlachs
>> of Dalmatia, and Arumanians; as well as those "Valašskis" who were
>> absorbed in Moravia, Slovakia as well as S-Poland & W-Ukraine.)
>
> The question is whether it was spoken at the time referred to by Tacitus,
> ie. 60 BCE; if so, then in connection with the slave trade through
> Nauportus. If so, Burebista himself might have used it.
>
>> In Romanian, a semantic "rival" of cale is cärare < Lat. carraria,
>> which is restricted, a bit more specialized on "Bergpfad".
>> Its semantics changed a bit from that of the initial carraria.
>> So, as synonyms they're are only in some cases interchangeable.
>> A boulevard in Bucharest, Calea Victoriei, were ludicrous/mocking
>> to be called Cärarea Victoriei, despite the fact that it better
>> fits for... car traffic.)
>
> That kind of alternation is indicative of the word being a loan, but I'm not
> aware of any r/l alternation in other loans from Venetic(?).
>
> As E.-M. remarks, the Romans believed
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/68605
> it was derived from
> E.-M.
> 'callum (et callus m., le pl. est toujours callī), -ī n.:
> peau épaisse et dure (des animaux ou des plantes), durillon, cal(us). -
> Ancien. M.L.1521. A ce sens technique se rattachent
> callÅ sus,
> callÅ sitÄ s,
> callitia (-tiÄ"s),
> callÄ"scÅ
> et ses composés (con-, in-, oc-, per-).
> Un sens figuré apparaît dans le dérivé:
> calleŠ, -e:s, -uī, -e:re: être endurci,
> callent rure manus, Aetna 261; d'où "être habile dans quelque chose,
> savoir par expérience". Plaute joue sur le double sens du mot, Pe.305,
> mugis calleo quam aprugnum callum callet. S'emploie absolument, ou avec
> l'acc. ou l'abl., avec ou sans in.
> De là :
> callidus: Cic., N.D.3,25, appello... callidos quorum, tamquam manus opere,
> sic animus usu concalluit; "habile" souvent avec une nuance péjorative,
> "rusé, roué" (cf. ueterÄ tor et uersÅ«tus). Dans la Bible traduit
> Â´Ï…Ï€Î¿ÎºÏ Î¹Ï„Î®Ï‚ et πανου~Ï Î³Î¿Ï‚. Non roman, mais conservé en
> celt.: britt. call.
> Dérivés: calliditÄ s; callidulus.
> Sans étymologie. Mot populaire.'
>
> Thus a callis is a 'worn' road.
>
> If true, it is tempting to equate it with the Hohl- of Hohlweg.
>
> For the sense of 'calles', see also Tacitus Annales 4.27
>
> '[4.27] Eadem aestate mota per Italiam servilis belli semina fors oppressit.
> auctor tumultus T. Curtisius, quondam praetoriae cohortis miles, primo
> coetibus clandestinis apud Brundisium et circumiecta oppida, mox positis
> propalam libellis ad libertatem vocabat agrestia per longinquos saltus et
> ferocia servitia, cum velut munere deum tres biremes adpulere ad usus
> commeantium illo mari. et erat isdem regionibus Curtius Lupus quaestor, cui
> provincia vetere ex more calles evenerant: is disposita classiariomm copia
> coeptantem cum maxime coniurationem disiecit.'
>
> "The same summer, the germs of a slave war in Italy were crushed by a
> fortunate accident. The originator of the movement was Titus Curtisius, once
> a soldier of the praetorian guard. First, by secret meetings at Brundisium
> and the neighbouring towns, then by placards publicly exhibited, he incited
> the rural and savage slave-population of the remote forests to assert their
> freedom. By divine providence, three vessels came to land for the use of
> those who traversed that sea. In the same part of the country too was
> Curtius Lupus, the quaestor, who, according to ancient precedent, had had
> the charge of the "woodland pastures" assigned to him. Putting in motion a
> force of marines, he broke up the seditious combination in its very first
> beginnings."
>
> The translation (Loeb?) uses "woodland pastures" for 'calles' which makes no
> sense in the context. The context is interesting; it is a slave rebellion on
> the sea route around Italy between Aquileia, the port of the trafic overland
> from Nauportus, where Caesar became proconsul (ie. the 'silvae callesque')
> and the port of Puteoli, which was used for trade with the east. The
> appearance of the quaestor with the responsibilty for the 'calles' on the
> scene of the rebellion seems auspicious to Tacitus. That makes me suspect
> that the 'calles', the control of which was important enough for the Romans
> to appoint high civil servants to guard them, was the route by which slaves
> were transported to Rome, and that the use of that word was an euphemism for
> that disreputable business. Note also that quaestors were in charge of the
> slave auctions after successful campaigns.
>
>
>
> Torsten
>
>
>