Re: Kluge's Law in Italic? (was: Volcae and Volsci)

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "dgkilday57" <dgkilday57@...> wrote:

>
>
>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "stlatos" <stlatos@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "dgkilday57" <dgkilday57@> wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "stlatos" <stlatos@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I don't think any additional complications are needed. It's already seen that tx > tHx was opt.:
> > > >
> > > > pathana- = broad Av; [e>a-a] patáne: = flat dish G;
> > > >
> > > > and tH > T > D > d in Latin.
> > >
> > > No; see <status>.
> >
> > Are you saying that had -tH- in PIE and tH>t not tH>T in Latin? If not you might be arguing against t>tH by x as I wrote above. If so, that would be ev. if the rules were reg., but they're not.
>
> What I am saying is that PIE *h4 regularly aspirates preceding Skt. -t-, and produces Av. -T- unless -s- precedes the dental; Av. -st- corresponds to Skt. -sth- in that case. But Italic stops are not aspirated or fricativized by *h4.

You'd need at least h4 to h12 to make sense of aspiration w/o opt. changes.


What are the sounds that you have for h2 and h4, if both apparently change e>a and one causes asp. before and the other after in some IE? What happened in pairs like:

mitrá- = friend, mithuna- = a pair S;

pri:tá- = pleased S; fritha- Av;

or

ti:rthá-m = passage/way/ford V S; tHúht = ford Khow; túr = animal trail Kamv; tìltas = bridge Lith; etc., with PIE * tLxàtló+ tL-x-t.r.+ showing t-t > t-tH / tH-t / t-? even w/in Indo-Iranian?

>
> > Instead of repeating my many arguments in favor of that, I'll say: yes; see stabulum L; staflar- U; what part of "optional" don't you understand?
>
> Those Italic words reflect PIE *sth4-dHlo-, and no optional soundlaws are needed.
>

There's no ev. for any *-dHlo- instead of *-tlo- anywhere. In Greek and Italic it seems almost impossible that they would follow so many V (that is, older (V)x which caused t>tH, etc.) instead of having random distribution for stem-endings. For ex., why are tafle (loc) U; tabula L; the same? Where are the *-tlo- endings after -a- < -x-?