From: dgkilday57
Message: 68472
Date: 2012-02-02
>Greek *ma:kh- could represent the zero-grade *mh2gH-, since word-initial *RHC- reflects like *ReHC- in Greek. Then Doric <ma:khana:>, Attic-Ionic <me:khane:> would have the same structure as Att.-Ion. <dapane:>. The irony of my proposal above is that the Grk. full grade *makh- comes out shorter than the zero-grade *ma:kh-.
> W dniu 2012-02-01 23:25, dgkilday57 pisze:
>
> > Yes. I do not have the LIV, but Osthoff's paper in PBB vol. 15 makes
> > clear that the forms with -u- are not ancient. Zehnder's invariable
> > vocalism would exclude Doric <ma:khos> etc. from this group. On the
> > other hand Skt. <magha-> etc. can hardly contain a zero-grade laryngeal.
> >
> > As a wild guess, I wonder whether *h2 (or perhaps *h4) could have
> > interacted with a following *gH so as to reduce the resulting cluster.
> > Verner once suggested that the sounds corresponding to our traditional
> > "voiced aspirates" were actually voiced affricates before the Gmc. Lv.,
> > and if *h2 was an approximant or fricative with velar articulation,
> > perhaps *h2gH was actually realized as *xgG > *GgG > gG, that is, what
> > we write as *gH. Then the normal grade *meh2gH- would be colored to
> > *mah2gH- and reduced to *magH-. But the zero-grade would retain the
> > approximant allophone *m&2gH-, falling together with normal grade in
> > non-InIr lgs. and with /o/-grade *moh2gH- > *mogH- > *mag- in Gmc.
> >
> > Now I have to explain the Greek forms with -a:-, so I have only shifted
> > the problem.
> Those who accept a marginal ablaut pattern involving a primary PIE *aI wonder whether that Greek verb could be explained on the basis of an archaic morphological pattern instead, full grade in the stative (*-eh2- or *-eh4) and zero-grade in the present. I seem to recall this verb having a Hittite cognate (whose pattern might shoot down such a proposal).
> usually work with something like *a: (strong grade) vs. *a (weak grade),
> as in Gk. (w)ágnumi 'break' vs. (w)é(w)a:ge 'is broken' from *wa(:)g^-
> (Jasanoff 2003: 31, 150). Some of the Germanic Class VI strong verbs
> could belong here, e.g. pres. *skaB-a/i-, pret. *sko:B- 'scratch, shave'
> (< *ska(:)bH-).
> *ma:gH-/*magH- could well be a root of this type, the question is onlyNor am I. Regarding Class VI, I am inclined to regard the preterit as full-grade, the pattern originating with inherently stative verbs, and the present as zero-grade (originally inceptive). (I believe this was essentially Lehmann's view of both Classes VI-VII.) This must also apply to Lat. <scabo:>, <sca:bi:> as well, stative *skeh2/4bH-. I do not know why some of these verbs have /j/-presents, Lat. <capio:>, <ce:pi>, Gmc. 'heave', while others do not.
> why the expected pattern of *maG-/*mo:G- was levelled out in favour of
> the short vowel. Note, however, that Germanic has a long vowel in both
> pret.sg. and pl. in Class VI, as in Goth. sko:b/sko:bun, while one would
> in principle expect sko:b/*skabun. It seems that this vowel contrast was
> utilised to distinguish the present from the preterite. There was no
> such need in the case of preterite-presents, so instead of following the
> example of Class VI they generalised the one or the other allomorph
> completely; hence *o:G- and *maG-, each with the same vowel throughout.
> Another similar case might be *mo:t- 'be allowed to, have to', but I'm
> not aware of any extra-Germanic cognates.
> I still don't know what to make of the short vowel in *(h)agHes- (inI wonder whether the root had two laryngeals, *h{x}eh2gH-, with normal grade becoming *h{x}ah2gH- > *h{x}agH- (as in my "wild guess" about *magH- above) > Grk. *akh-, and zero-grade *h{x}h2gH- > *a:gH- > Gmc. *o:G-. I think we have the same development of two laryngeals to *-a:-, Gmc. *-o:-, in 'mother', since 'father' and 'daughter' have zero-grade roots.
> both Greek and Germanic) if *o:G- has an old *a:. It could reflect the
> generalised weak-case stem of an original acrostatic paradigm (like the
> putative "Narten" stem *g^e:rh2-s-/*g^erh2-s-), but it's merely a
> possibility, not a real solution.