From: george knysh
Message: 68290
Date: 2011-12-25
--- On Sun, 12/25/11, Torsten <tgpedersen@...> wrote:
From: Torsten <tgpedersen@...>
Subject: Re: [tied] Romanized Bastarnians
To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, December 25, 2011, 8:55 PM
--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, george knysh <gknysh@...> wrote:
>
> Merry Christmas!
And likewise!
> --- On Sun, 12/25/11, Torsten <tgpedersen@...> wrote:
>
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/67060
>
> 89 BCE Mithridates allies himself with 'Cimbri, the Gallograecians,
> the Sarmatians, and the Bastarnians'
>
> 88 BCE 'the Sarmatian and Bastarnian wars restrained Mithridates'
>
> Did the Sarmatians and Bastarnians turn coat?
> Is a mixture of these two peoples = the Romanized Bastarnae entering
> Cimbrian Przeworsk?
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/68231
> http://vln.by/node/178
>
> Or did the army Mithridates sent take over local Sarmatians and
> Bastarnians, later to be isolated by development in the south?
>
> Torsten
>
> GK: I would assume that the conflict with Sarmatians and
> Bastarnians took place at the beginning of the Marsian war, when
> things were going particularly badly for the Romans (i.e. in 91, 90,
> and part of 89 BCE.) Plutarch's text gives no dates. By 88 Rome was
> victorious and Mithradates' "kindnesses" had won over Sarmatians and
> Bastarnians.
So you want to reverse the sequence of those two events?
Offhand I can't think of anything that would preclude that.
I would like to somehow include the fact of the Romanized Bastarnae being avoided by their traditional cousins as a sign of them being at opposite sides of a war at this time.
Torsten
****GK: What "Romanized Bastarnians"? Do you mean the groups that Nosevych mentioned as culturally influenced by the Romans of the Danube? Acc. to him the process did not begin until the departure of the Poeneshti-Lukashovka people, and indeed not really until the destruction of classical Bastarnia in the mid-1rst c. CE. But this cultural "Romanization" was similar to the "Romanization" of the Gothic complex in the Chernyakhiv culture, i.e. it was a sort of a veneer (except of course for those Bastarnians who moved into Imperial territory around the end of the 3rd c. They became fully "Romans" in fairly short order.
Remember, though, that even at the height of "classical Bastarnia" the four main groupings (Poeneshti-Lukashovka and the three Zarubinian ones) did not always see eye to eye on things.*****