--- In
cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "t0lgsoo1" <guestuser.0x9357@...> wrote:
>
> >(3) a borrowing from Turkic. This was repeated many times online
> > but no one ever gave a source.
>
> Most online dictionaries say knish "probable" of Turkic origin,
> but they don't show us that variant of the word.
>
> In modern Turkish, kenish (keniÅ) seems to be some tool
> (for boring?) used by a carpenter; and kinish (kiniÅ) means
> "slot; groove".
>
> So, that assumed substrate Eastern Iranian must have been
> different.
>
> Perhaps Ossetian-English, Tajik-English, and Farsi-English
> dictionaries might help. (In Iranian, kinesh seems to mean
> "advice".)
>
> ***
>
> The "dumpling" connection seems to include these Germanic &
> German occurrences:
>
> kned-, knud- >
>
> -> kneten "to knead"; die Knete (Knetmasse)
> -> Knoten "knot"
> -> knuddeln "to hug, cuddle"
>
> knuddelig "cuddlesome, cuddly"; Knuddeligkeit
> Knuddel = Knubbel = Knoten = Verdickung = Geschwulst (Tumor)
>
> (Depending on the context, Knuddel also mean Knorren =
> Kna(u)s/Knus = Kneis/Gneis and Knast (this one not in the
> sense of its homophone Knast which is a different word,
> initially from Jewish slang, and means "jail").)
>
> -> Knödel [ËknøËdlÌ©], Knedl [ËkneËdlÌ©], (yid.) Knejdl
> [ËkneydlÌ©] = knidli (ÐнидлÑ)
>
> Knödel also means: ___Kloss, Klops, Klumpen, Batzen___, Klunker
>
> ("zu Klumpen ge_ball_t"; so these fit semantically, depending on
> context: Ball, Ballen, Bolle, Balg, Polster < PIE *bhel-, *bhol-.
> I.e. a "ball, lump").
>
> Thus, seemingly there is a relation: Germanic _knVd-_ or _knVt-_
> versus Eastern _knV_ + -VÅ¡_.
> ***
>
> The primary meaning of your surname might be knish (food).
>
> But what if you have a German ancestor Kni(e)sch(ke) from
> those Germanized Slavic populations in the Eastern areas of the
> German "Reich" (e.g. Lusatia, Silezia, Pommerania etc.)?
>
> You see how many German-speaking people there are with Kn*sh-
> names (Knisch(-), Knesch(-), and, according to German onomastics
> linguists, all these names are Slavic (along with myriads of
> other barely Germanized names, such as Wessel, Stahnke,
> Marschner (< Marislav), Borsche/Porsche (< Borislav, where
> Boris is Turkic/Iranic bars "leopard") etc).
>
> OTOH, if an assumed German name is based on the Germanic knu:s,
> then your "kinship" consists of millions of South Germans
> (belonging chiefly to the Alemanian, Suebian and Bavarian
> German groups, i.e. ... real Bastarnians. :))
>
Ishinan sent this
http://www.theegyptianchronicles.com/Article/KNOB.html
to several of us, including me; not that I mind, but I think he should send those links here for us all to discuss. I'll repeat a quote I sent him:
Peter Heather
Empires and Barbarians
pp. 565-566
'The relative proliferation of sources also allows us to explore the operations of this trading network in more detail than was possible for its Roman-era counterparts. We have already come across some of the major waterborne routes that Scandinavian adventurers opened up in the ninth century: particularly, down the Volga and its tributaries to the Muslim world, and down the Dnieper and across the Black Sea to Constantinople. There were also land routes running through central Europe into the west, on which Prague was a major staging post. We can also, importantly, say something about where the slaves were generally being captured. The Arab geographers report that the Rus raided westwards for their victims, while the 'western Slavs' raided eastwards. Confirmation of this picture is provided by the distribution of the Muslim silver coins that came back north in return for all the slaves and furs. Striking concentrations emerge. Two are where you might expect: along the Volga and its tributaries, and in Scandinavia. A third, however, lay between the Oder and the Vistula, right in the heartland of the Piast state. Even more arresting is the complete absence of coins in the immense tracts of territory east of the Vistula and north and west of the Dnieper. Pretty straightforwardly, then, the coin distributions confirm the reports of the Arab geographers. The areas without coins are precisely those from which the slaves were being extracted, caught between the rock of the Rus and hard place of the west Slavs.'
And that would earlier be the territory of the
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fenni
From the above link it seems the 'cunnus' word
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/21608
is linked to the "lump" sense.
BTW on the subject of
Arabic k`nb in "man having horned protuberances on the head"
cf. Hellquist
Svensk etymologisk ordbok
http://runeberg.org/svetym/0421.html
http://runeberg.org/svetym/0422.html
(believe me, George, I didn't make it up)
'knös, i uttr. [in the expr.]
en rik [rich] knös osv.,
i sv. dial. även om den onde,
[in Sw. dial. also of the Evil One, ie the Devil]
fsv. knös, troll, förskräcklig människa, [troll, horrible person]
motsv.
no. knøs, stolt, myndig man, trotsig person,
[proud, authoritative, defiant person]
ä. da.: våldsam o. övermodig man, [violent and presumptuous man]
da.: ung person [young person].
De sv. o. da. orden kunna utgå från ett
[the Sw. and Da. words might derive from a]
*knaus- =
nisl. hnauss, jordklump,
no. knaus, bergknalt,
ä. nsv. (t. ex. U. Hiärne),
sv. o. da. dial. knös, liten förhöjning el. hög m. m.,
väl besl. med de under knoge anförda orden
[probably related to words listed under]
(fsv. knosa, krossa, osv.);
men även vara identiska med
[but also be related to]
no. knøs (av *knÅsia-; se Torp Ark. 24: 94),
i avljudsförh. till det likbetyd.
sv. knase
o. möjl. även
sv. dial. knasa, trycka sönder, osv.
I alla händelser är knös en överförd anv. av ett ord med betyd. âknöl, klump o. d.â,
jfr den bildl. betyd, av knöl, kloss, klump, eng. lob, stor klump o.
lymmel (se lubb) osv.
Se även under
kaxe o. kuse.'
On Sw. knoge "knuckle"
'knoge, Var. rer. 1538, av ett
fsv. *knÅwe av knÅe (liksom loge av lÅe) i
fsv. fingraknoe Sdw. Tillägg =
isl. knui,
da. knoe,
ett speciellt nordiskt ord;
besl. med föreg. o. med
fsv. (osv.) knoka, knota,
varom under
knota 2.
[knoka, sv. dial., ä. nsv., fsv., benknota, osv.,
se under
knota 2 o.
knyckla.]'
Cf. Da.
knuge "squeeze, compress",
knuse "break up into pieces, crumble (tr.)"
knude "knot, lump, tumor"
Torsten