Re: request to Celtic specialists

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "gknysh" <gknysh@...> wrote:

>
> Boy! That is certainly food for thought. Thank you very much,
> George. From humble "dumpling" to aristocratic scion or at least
> "toughie". I'll try not to let it go to my head (:=))
>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "t0lgsoo1" <guestuser.0x9357@>
> >wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > Thanks a lot guys! You're gonna laugh at what prompted my query.
> > > I was attempting to trace the origin of my surname (:=)) and
> > > among various possibilities (in Vasmer and elsewhere) found that
> > > mention of "kinesh" by Dobrev, allegedly in some Eastern Iranian
> > > tongue (in the sense of "seed', "sowing", "growth", with an
> > > alleged Celtic cognate (but with no references).
> >
> > Your name might be a derivation of... knyaz. This according to
> > Hans Bahlow, Deutsches Namenlexikon, 2nd ed., 1976, (Suhrkamp
> > paperback #65).
> >
> > German-Slavic onomastic derivations highly frequent in Germany
> > and Austria are: _Kniesche, Knieschke, Niese, Knesch, Knesche,
> > Kneschke, Knösche_.
> >
> > The onomastic dictionary says: "ostdeutsch-slawisch 'Fürst, Herr',
> > (from) _knesik_ 'Junker'; vergleiche (compare) knesepole
> > 'Fürstenfeld'" Example for attestations given: "Ein Slawe
> > _Dubbermer Kneseke_ (in) 1301 (in) Stralsund" // _Kneese_: place
> > name in Mecklenburg.
> >
> > ***
> >
> > But if your name might be a Slavic adaption of a German name,
> > this one might have been the South-German (esp. Bavarian/Austrian)
> > _Kneissl_ - from _Kneissel, Kneussel, Knäussle_ < _Knaus_ <
> > _knu:s_ "knotty; gnarly, gnarled; snaggy; knobbed", fig. "raw;
> > rude; tough"; esp. Suebian _Knaus_ (_Knäusle_ and _Knüsslin_ are
> > diminutives thereof) and Swiss Alemannian _knûs_ /knu:s/. Attested
> > in South Germany since the 14th century.
> >
> > (In North Germany, esp. Hamburg, there are _Gnaß, Gnoß, Gnasa_,
> > _Gnosa_: the dictionary says "ostdeutsch-slawisch", yet without
> > explanations. Idem of _Gniesmer_ "ostdeutsch-slawisch".)

I thought it was something you eat, like my nationality?

Anyway while we at it paying homage to your name, here's from
Dansk Etymologisk Ordbog:
'I. knøs en (dial.) lille, rund høj, klippeknold';
glda. knøse pl.,
no. knaus 'fjeldknold', [crag]
sv. dial. knös 'lille høj', [small hill]
oldnord. knauss m. 'fjeldknold'; [crag]
en aflydsform til knuse.
â€" Jf. knyst, II. knøs.
Litt.:
J. Sahlgren i ANF XLIV (1928) 261. -
W. Meid i IF LXIX (1965) 221.

II. knøs en (dial., poet.) 'dreng, ung mand' [boy, young man];
glda. knøs 'vild, ustyrlig mand', [wild, irrepressible man]
no. dial. knøs 'overmodig, myndig, trodsig, stolt mand'.
[superbuous, authoritative, defiant, proud man]
Den da. og sv. forms -ø- kunne være udviklet af *-au- og være identisk med I. knøs; snarest er dog alle de nord. former af ens oprindelse:
germ. *knōsia- 'fremstående person' [prominent person]
i aflydsforh. til fx [in ablaut rel. to eg]
sv. dial. knase 'dygtig, rig mand' [competenmt, rich man] og
knast (s.d.).'

'knast en 'knude i ved; knop, fremspring';
no., sv., nty. d.s., ty. Knast;
i aflydsforh. til
mnty. knōster 'brusk',
holl. knoest 'knast, knort, knude',
mholl. knoes 'brusk',
sv. dial. knōse 'knort på træ';
ligesom knase til
ie. *gnes-,
en udvidelse af
*gen- 'trykke sammen; ngt. sammentrykt',
se u. I. knap. â€"
Jf. gnalde, knyst, II. knøs.
Litt.: W. Meid i IF LXIX (1965) 221.'

Also this:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/8171
and
http://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kn%C3%B8sen_(Dronninglund_Sogn)

The interesting thing is that it seems documented from both Slavic and Germanic, but there is no Grimm-relation between the two word sets, which makes me suspect Venetic origin, also because of the form:
CC-V´C-, from a root CVC-, like the Aestian (from Venetic) *glaz-


Torsten