From: Tavi
Message: 68044
Date: 2011-09-14
>In an old post from 2007, Torsten said *-Vk is a typical NWB suffix:
> > West Gmc. may well have gotten *parran- from a NWBlock *parra, rather
> > than directly from West Med. substrate itself. It is not clear whether
> > the suffixation yielding *parruk-, *parrik- '(fence) pertaining to the
> > enclosure' was appended in Gmc., NWB, or the WM substrate itself; a
> > /k/-suffix is not very distinctive.
>
> The suffix would be actually *-ik,*-uk rather than just *-k. So I think
> we can rule out Germanic.
>
--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@...> wrote:
>
> Why Gaulish? *-il-, *-ul- is a NWBlock sufffix, and NWBlock words show
> a predilection for Romance(?) endings, eg. Engl. -age (baggage,
> package); however, I never could figure out how Kuhn distinguishes
> between NWBlock and 'Belgic' words. There aren't any confirmed loans
> from Gaulish into German.
>
> In Basque there is Old Biscayan abe "tree", standard Basque abar
> "branch", with the common suffix -ar;
>
Basque habe (with /h/ in Northern dialects) is 'beam', and only means 'tree' in Biscayan. It's also unlikely is related to abar 'branches (collective)'.
> further (Trask):
> 'The three synonymous items barne, barren and barru 'interior' are all
> related: barne has been extracted from barnean 'inside', a syncopated
> form of barrenean, and barren in turn is probably barru plus an
> ending, probably the superlative -en. [These nouns are all used as
> postpositions]'; and barruti "enclosure, district" (Sp. barrio?,
> uncertain etym.).
>
According to Coromines, Spanish barrio is an Arabic loanword from barrî 'outside (of a city)'. But these Basque words are possibly related to barranco 'ravine', from a derivated form *barr-anko (PNC *?\wa:rXV 'mountain pass; hollow, cavern').
> Basque barrundu "stab/pierce" (cf. Engl. spear) has the -tu infinitive
> suffix that also confirmed loaned verbs (eg. from Latin) have.
>
Yes, the suffix -tu was borrowed from Latin, but it's still productive in modern Basque. It doesn't mean the verb was actually borrowed but rather it was formed after Roman times.
For Romance barra, the traditional proposed etymology is from Celtic *barro- 'point, top' < PIE *bhars- 'point', but this is hardly convincing, as it's usually the case with substrate loanwords.
PGmc *spar(r)e:n, *sparrio:n 'stake, beam' suggests we've got a non-IE root *barr- ~ *sparr-, where s-mobile regularly devoices the following stop. Thus I assume forms with initial p- such as parra and *parr-Vk are genuine outputs from *barr- in NWB and related languages.