Re: park, was *pVs- for cat

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "dgkilday57" <dgkilday57@...> wrote:

>
> Several substratists, including Hubschmid, have taken the original sense of Ib.-Rom. *parra as 'trellis' and regarded it as a variant of *barra 'horizontal bar, barrier, lever, etc.' which is widely reflected in West Romance. I consider this equation incorrect on both formal and semantic grounds. No compelling evidence has been presented for widespread voicing doublets derived from West Mediterranean substrate.
>

This can be easily disproved, as in Proto-Celtic *bando- 'peak, top' and the toponymy root *pend-/*penn-.

> There may be some overlap in the semantic ranges of *parra 'enclosed space' and *barra 'obstacle, barrier, bar', but they are still distinct words.
>

Do you remember my comments about the etymology of Latin cavea 'cage'? They also apply to Spanish parrilla 'grill' (diminutive), a metal grid used for roasting. Also the meaning 'obstacle, barrier' is secondary from 'bar'.

> The purpose of a *parra is not to obstruct movement, but to protect the animals or plants inside.
>

Sure, this is why electrified fences (e.g. for cows) are meant to "protect" inside animals from getting ouside. :-)

> Probably West Rom. *barranca 'ravine' and *barrum 'mud, clay' (WM *barri on the grounds of Sp. <barrial> 'muddy spot'?) belong with *barra, since a ravine is an obstacle which is frequently muddy.
>

I'm afraid you've wandered too far. Perhaps to the Sahara, where this "obstacle" is sand (cfr. Afrasian *bur- 'dry land, sand, dust'). But the connection between barro and barranco is very dubious, if not unlikely.

> Some substratists have tried to connect the other Sp. <parra> 'broad low earthen pot or jar with handles, commonly used for honey' with <barro> 'mud, clay'.
>

Possible, but not sure.

> Again, I consider this incorrect. More likely this *parra 'honey-pot' was originally a circular tray with a raised rim to prevent the contents from spilling. This implement resembled an enclosure for animals, and indeed served as an enclosure for honey, so naturally it would take its name from the other *parra 'enclosure'.
>

I think your explanation is a fairy tale, so to speak.

> Thus, again we have no evidence for general b/p-oscillation in West Med. words.
>

On the contrary. See above.

> West Gmc. may well have gotten *parran- from a NWBlock *parra, rather than directly from West Med. substrate itself. It is not clear whether the suffixation yielding *parruk-, *parrik- '(fence) pertaining to the enclosure' was appended in Gmc., NWB, or the WM substrate itself; a /k/-suffix is not very distinctive.
>

The suffix would be actually *-ik,*-uk rather than just *-k. So I think we can rule out Germanic.

> Nor is it clear whether Welsh <parr> 'enclosed place' and Breton <par> 'plot of land' were borrowed from early OE, from NWB, or from the WM substrate, perhaps earlier than the Brittonic stage (but obviously after the Common Celtic loss of inherited */p/).
>

As above, I think we can rule out Old English.