Re: Schöffe I

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "t0lgsoo1" <guestuser.0x9357@...> wrote:

>
> >e.g., the csikos in Hungary
>
> The tchicosh herdsmen chiefly dealing with horses (and cattle).
> Shepherds are called different: juhász [yoo-hahs] (from juh
> "sheep").
>
> >and the cioban or păcurar in Romania
>
> Many of Hungary's juhász were... Romanians. The (Iranian-Turkic)
> term cioban (choban) might have spread in the Romanian language
> gradually, replacing the Romance päcurar (from pecus, pecoris),
> that has been better preserved in Transylvania, Banat and in the
> Aromanian (picurar) and Istrian-Romanian dialects.

Grigore Nandris
The Development and Structure of Rumanian
The Slavonic and East European Review, Vol. 30, No. 74 (Dec., 1951), pp. 18-20

'Our task is not to find a solution to the century-old debate on the continuity of the Roman element in Dacia Traiana, but to show how far the history of the language is able to throw light on the long and bitterly debated problem of the cradle of the Rumanian people, which medievalists have called "an enigma and a miracle." 21

Linguistic geography, very much practised in Rumanian philology between the two world wars (when a survey of the dialects was completed and a new linguistic atlas began to be published), makes interesting contributions to the solution of that problem. The mapping of the fundamental vocabulary has shown that the West Transylvanian region, the Banat, and the western part of Wallachia preserve the Latin element with more tenacity, whereas the eastern and south-eastern territory makes innovations.

So we have Western Rumanian nea < nĭvem replaced in the east by omăt and zăpada of Slavonic origin; we have păcurar < pecorarius replaced by cioban of Turkish origin;
we have in the west:
pedestru "wretched poor" (cf. Fr. pietre),
sămţ < sancti "40 martyrs ";
încheietură, nodeu, "ankle" compared with the Slavonic gleznă in the east;
porumb "dove" : hulub;
sudoare "sweat" : năduşeala,
and so on.

This tendency to innovate affects not only the loan-words, but also the Latin vocabulary. A study of the geographical areas of
femeie - muiere "woman", "wife",
burtă - pântece "belly"
shows clearly that Transylvania was the centre of linguistic expansion.22

Now this evident conservatism of the western peripheral area would not be very eloquent in itself if it were not supported also by other circumstances. The oldest toponymic formations in -eşti cover almost the same area, and archaeology shows that that area was the most densely colonised by the Romans, and that Roman life did not cease there altogether after the 3rd century. An historical map shows most of the municipia, castra, castella, and other Roman settlements concentrated in the western region of the Rumania of today, i.e. of Dacia Traiana. Inscriptions and vases of the 4th century have been unearthed by recent excavations in the same region.23

Many of the above-mentioned Latin elements do not exist in the Rumanian dialects south of the Danube and therefore they could not have been brought from south of the Danube if we assume that the whole Roman element left Dacia in a.d. 271 with Aurelian's official evacuation. It is also difficult to imagine that the Roman element returned from the south and settled down exactly in the region which it had inhabited centuries before.

The south and the north of the Danube are therefore to be regarded as the cradle of the Rumanian language. The Danube was not a linguistic barrier then any more than it is today. On the other hand, it is beyond doubt that the Rumanian element in Dacia was reinforced by immigrations from the south, after the settlement of the Slavs in those regions. This again is apparent in the history of the language.


21 G. I. Brătianu, Une enigme et un miracle historique: le peuple roumain, Bucarest, 1937;
Walter von Wartburg, Les origines des peuples romans, Paris,
1941 ;
A. Dami, "Théorie de la continuité daco-roumaine",
1-e partie: "La linguistique",
2-e partie: "L'histoire"
[Bulletin de la Societe Neuchâteloise de Geographie, 51, 1945, pp. 43-101; 52, 1946, pp. 11-75);
M. Friedwagner, "Ueber die Sprache und Heimat der Rumäner in ihrer Frühzeit"
(Zeitschrift fur romanische Philologie, 54, Halle, 1934, pp. 641-715).

22 Cf.
Atlasul Linguistic Roman (published under the direction of Sextil Puşcariu by Sever Pop), I, 1938, especially maps 272 and 232, and
Micul Atlas Linguistic Român, I, maps 380 and 314;
S. Pop, in Bulletin Linguistique, X, Bucarest, 1942, pp. 5-6,
discusses the implications of these innovations. A survey of Rumanian
dialects has been published by
G. Weigand: Linguistischer Atlas des dacorumanischen Sprachgebietes, Leipzig, 1909.
23 S. Puscariu, Die rum. Spr., p. 433, sq.;
G. I. Brătianu, Les origines du peuple roumain:
les donnies archeologiques, Bucarest, 1939.'

Hans Kuhn sees -st as a typical NWBlock, thus also Venetic, suffix.

> >The unique professonal status and separateness of the ciobani
> >might indicate a separate ethnic origin.
>
> In medieval up to modern times (18th-19th-20th c.), in an area
> consisting of Moravia, Slovakia, Southern Poland, Carpathian
> Ukraine, Romania, Hungary, Croatia, Serbia, Montenegro,
> Bulgaria, Greece, many or most of shepherds' language was (and
> still is) Romanian. Hence, for instance, a Moravian region in
> the Beskid mountains is called Vlashske ("Walachia"). And some
> specific Romanian shepherd vocabulary is spread as loanwords in
> such languages. E.g. the Romanian word for "cheese" brânzä: in
> Slovakian bryndza and in Hungary brenze (a curious phenomenon:
> the Hungarian population of Romania does not know this Hungarian
> loanword; it knows the original one, brânzä, due to the simple
> fact that they speak Romanian, whereas their brethren in Pannonia
> use brenze as a loanword from the shepherd vocabulary there).

Hm. Is that the reality behind the German taunt:
'Rumäne, das ist keine Nationalität, das ist ein Beruf'?

> But the Scythian-Turkic herdspeople and shepherd warriors who
> led various invasions of Europe had been different kinds of
> populations.

Here's an idea I got on who the shepherds / Romanians were:

In the
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Mithridatic_War
new slaves became scarce, since Mithridates controlled the
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosporan_Kingdom
and its capital
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panticapaeum
with the most important slave market in the ancient world. Therefore the Romans, who had at that time already extended their field of operations to the south of the Danube
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/66474 ,
had to resort to buying slaves from the Thracians on the north side of the river, cf the finds of hoards of real and fake Roman coins there
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/66827
further cf.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/66820
Those collaborating Thracians would have communicated with the Romans in a
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pidgin
Latin which then became a
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creole_language
and that language was Old Romanian. We are talking mid - 1st century BCE here, thus long before
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trajan
in other words, the Romanian language is older than the Roman conquest of Dacia.

This scenario, in which the cioban is a transporter of not only cattle, but also of human livestock would explain

1) some of the evidence used by some Romanian linguist to prove that Old Romanian / Dacian was a language closely related to Latin, eg. the fact that on the Trajan column Roman soldiers communicate with natives without interpreters, and

2) the deeply rooted institution of
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Romania

3) the fact that Romanians didn't Slavicize in the 6th and 7th century like everyone else (except the Albanians) in the Balkans (since they could not identify with the Slav / slave cause)


This situation would have been intolerable to the then free Dacians, thus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burebista
on the advice / instigation of
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decaeneus
in order to get a supply of slaves to sell to the Romans, with his http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Getae /
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dacians
attacked the Northern
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bastarnae
ie, the Atmoni and Sidones
cf.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/67087

(and these Dacians, whose language, Dacian, was similar to Thracian, later, having fled south of the River, became the Albanians).



Torsten